Why not use the F-22 to replace the F/A-18 and F-14?

(John Alger) wrote:

The crew expected it, but it was not there becaue they were
too low. When he realized his error, the captain manually applied TOGA
power.


This absolutely floors me...WHY wouldn't he intimately KNOW
this?...I find it almost unbelievable that he wouldn't. What was
the cojo doing all this while?...had they never heard of CRM over
there?...
--

-Gord.

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
...
(John Alger) wrote:

The crew expected it, but it was not there becaue they were
too low. When he realized his error, the captain manually applied TOGA
power.


This absolutely floors me...WHY wouldn't he intimately KNOW
this?...I find it almost unbelievable that he wouldn't. What was
the cojo doing all this while?...had they never heard of CRM over
there?...
--


The CVR transcript is on line at
http://aviation-safety.net/cvr/cvr_acf296.shtml

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:


"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
.. .
(John Alger) wrote:

The crew expected it, but it was not there becaue they were
too low. When he realized his error, the captain manually applied TOGA
power.


This absolutely floors me...WHY wouldn't he intimately KNOW
this?...I find it almost unbelievable that he wouldn't. What was
the cojo doing all this while?...had they never heard of CRM over
there?...
--


The CVR transcript is on line at
http://aviation-safety.net/cvr/cvr_acf296.shtml

Keith

Thanks Keith...
--

-Gord.

On 2/28/04 10:46 AM, in article ,
"Gord Beaman )" wrote:

(John Alger) wrote:

The crew expected it, but it was not there becaue they were
too low. When he realized his error, the captain manually applied TOGA
power.


This absolutely floors me...WHY wouldn't he intimately KNOW
this?...I find it almost unbelievable that he wouldn't. What was
the cojo doing all this while?...had they never heard of CRM over
there?...
--

-Gord.

Lulled into a false sense of security by automation he didn't fully
understand.

--Woody

Are there two of these 'fly into the trees' accidents? The one I am
familiar with I have the AvWeek writeups somewhere. I used this (among
others) as 'don't do this - think it out first' safety talks with my
av students. The one I'm talking about is the Air France A320 chief
pilot giving a group of disabled kids a ride during a demo flight in
the new airplane. He made a low slow 'silent' pass with engines at
idle, and got too slow, started sinking and couldn't get the engines
spooled up before the tail of the fuelage hit the trees and of course
then not being able to rotate any higher and with the engine FADECs
taking their own sweet time to spool up - crashed, killing some of the
kids and injuring the others. And he was a graduate of the FAF test
pilot school, too. Great example of complacency and hubris.
Walt BJ

(WaltBJ) wrote:

Are there two of these 'fly into the trees' accidents? The one I am
familiar with I have the AvWeek writeups somewhere. I used this (among
others) as 'don't do this - think it out first' safety talks with my
av students. The one I'm talking about is the Air France A320 chief
pilot giving a group of disabled kids a ride during a demo flight in
the new airplane. He made a low slow 'silent' pass with engines at
idle, and got too slow, started sinking and couldn't get the engines
spooled up before the tail of the fuelage hit the trees and of course
then not being able to rotate any higher and with the engine FADECs
taking their own sweet time to spool up - crashed, killing some of the
kids and injuring the others. And he was a graduate of the FAF test
pilot school, too. Great example of complacency and hubris.
Walt BJ

I don't think that there's two Walt...your description sounds
like the one we're discussing here...I seem to be gathering that
he expected the autothrottle syst to apply TOGA and when it
didn't (because he was too low - and had selected it off anyway)
he was too late in applying it manually. I believe he applied it
only five seconds before he contacted the trees. You might read
Jerry Grasso's descriptions here, he seems to have a good handle
on it (plus he teaches a very similar system I believe).
--

-Gord.

"Gord Beaman" ) wrote in message . ..
(WaltBJ) wrote:

Are there two of these 'fly into the trees' accidents? The one I am
There was another Airbus CFIT accident a little bit later than the one
discussed here. IIRR the aircraft mushed into the upslope of a
mountain at night in bad weather. And lack of familiarity with the
automation was a factor.

(sid) wrote in message . com...
"Gord Beaman" ) wrote in message . ..
(WaltBJ) wrote:

Are there two of these 'fly into the trees' accidents? The one I am
There was another Airbus CFIT accident a little bit later than the one
discussed here. IIRR the aircraft mushed into the upslope of a
mountain at night in bad weather. And lack of familiarity with the
automation was a factor.

This was the accident...
http://aviation-safety.net/database/1992/920120-0.htm