Navy or Air Farce?

Had an exchange tour with the USAF..IP in 61st TFS and 13th TFTS..late 70's.
Flew F-4D after the US Gov't gave all the MacDill -E models to Egypt.

I was always impressed by the equipment, the JOs and my COs. Papy Fero and Mike
Ryan(yep, the same).

I became a great bomber, even in the trunk with radar nuke deliverys but the
USAF F-4 boys couldn't fight the A/C to 'save their life'. I had my way with
all of them including the Fighter Weapos School guys.

BUT my biggest gripe was when the Wing Commander didn't like it when I didn't
have my scarf on, or when I rolled up my sleeves too high or when I had my
brown boots on. There were more O-6s in the wing administration than on an
entire battle group. I loved the tour, great guys and great flying but you can
have the BS way to administer the aviators.


P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

On 06 Mar 2004 14:54:49 GMT, (Pechs1) wrote:

Had an exchange tour with the USAF..IP in 61st TFS and 13th TFTS..late 70's.
Flew F-4D after the US Gov't gave all the MacDill -E models to Egypt.

Frustrating to say the least. I came out of SEA in F-4Es and went to
Torrejon Spain, only to watch the last of the E-models take off on a
realignment throughout USAFE which gave us the C-models. Flew Cs for
four years.

I was always impressed by the equipment, the JOs and my COs. Papy Fero and Mike
Ryan(yep, the same).

The AF does keep the birds clean and the list of delayed discrepancies
short. That doesn't happen on the boat as much because of supply
issues (at least from this long distance view).

I became a great bomber, even in the trunk with radar nuke deliverys but the
USAF F-4 boys couldn't fight the A/C to 'save their life'. I had my way with
all of them including the Fighter Weapos School guys.

I'll let you brag, but would have to put a great big "that depends" on
the claim. In those days before ACMI, there was a lot of loudest guy
wins the debrief. I ran a lot of exercises in USAFE when I was in the
Hq. Many of them played AF vs USN and the opportunity to pit Eagles
against Tomcats was sought by all. The debrief usually was the Toms
claiming kills prior to the merge because of Phoenix and the Eagles
claiming WVR morts when turning/burning. (Of course those were
under-powered A-model Toms.)

Navy led the way (see I admit it!) on developing loose deuce/fluid
attack tactics and instituting lots of dissimilar. It took the AF a
long time to catch up.

BUT my biggest gripe was when the Wing Commander didn't like it when I didn't
have my scarf on, or when I rolled up my sleeves too high or when I had my
brown boots on. There were more O-6s in the wing administration than on an
entire battle group. I loved the tour, great guys and great flying but you can
have the BS way to administer the aviators.

I'll have to agree. But, I'll also point out that at sea you don't
quite have the image problem that you do with interacting with lots of
non-combatant folks at a ground base. I'll also mention a couple of
times I x-country visited a USN base and had to change out of flying
clothes before I could leave base ops to get to quarters.

It's a function of leadership and different folks have different
priorities. I always enjoyed working for a warrior more than a
careerist. Shined boots are nice, but bombs on target are more
important.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Ed- The AF does keep the birds clean and the list of delayed discrepancies
short. That doesn't happen on the boat as much because of supply
issues (at least from this long distance view). BRBR

A corrosion cycle also meant a complete respray. 2600 or so maintainers for a
wing of 72 A/C...'bout twice what the USN would have on a CV...PLUS AIMD for
the USAF..lots of folks, very regimented.

I wrote the sked, 'forgot' to list BDUs for my own hop of 3 'cones' and me
leading. 'Expeditor', senior enlisted on the line, NEXT to a bomb cart and crew
WOULD NOT load my 4 A/C...another trip to see the Wing Commander. heaven forbid
they got a 'deviation'...but we lost 4 sorties.

Ed I'll let you brag, but would have to put a great big "that depends" on
the claim. In those days before ACMI, there was a lot of loudest guy
wins the debrief. BRBR

The 'D' model was first and foremost a bomber, conventional and nuke, no doubt
about that. These guys could bomb, both visual and radar..But the emphasis was
right there, not on ACM.

The F-15 was a whole different animal, like the Turkey, an A-A machine. I would
hope these guys could fight it..But the older guys in my squadaron were Thud
drivers and such...

Ed-
I'll also mention a couple of
times I x-country visited a USN base and had to change out of flying
clothes before I could leave base ops to get to quarters. BRBR

Should have did what I did...I said I was USN, that mystyfied them enough that
I could generally do what I wanted. Just say USAF, and strut out. They have no
control over you on a USN base.

BUT loved the tour as I said. Good JOs and good COs are the same everywhere.

P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Combat Buckeye Phlyer????????????

--
jim morris

USN Ret.

Former Buckeye Maintainer VT 23

Jim Morris vient de nous annoncer :

Combat Buckeye Phlyer????????????

Combat Training, I think.

--
Sergio

Jim- Combat Buckeye Phlyer BRBR

You betcha-Owned 4 of these while in VF-126. Great little jet to throw around
in the F-14 stall/spin syllabus. very honest, very easy to fly.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Pechs
blurted out:

Had an exchange tour with the USAF..IP in 61st TFS and 13th TFTS..late 70's.
Flew F-4D after the US Gov't gave all the MacDill -E models to Egypt.

BUT my biggest gripe was when the Wing Commander didn't like it when I didn't
have my scarf on, or when I rolled up my sleeves too high or when I had my
brown boots on.

In 1987 stationed at Kunsan, a new arrival was an AF type whose
previous tour was an exchange with VF-2 (I think) aboard the
Ranger...Bob "Motown" Records.

When Motown showed up TDY at MacDill for F-16 RTU (that'd be the RAG
for my naval brethren) from his exchange tour, he walked into the
squadron in the finest of naval traditions...wearing a polo shirt
under his bag, "Motown" name tag, a ratty hat stuffed in a pocket
somewhere, boots that had been run through the garbage disposal,
sleeves up above his elbows, collar turned up...your basic, one each,
manly man doing manly things in a manly manner.

The Wing King just happened to be flying with that squadron that day.
Wing King noticed Motown, and greeted him and asked if he was a Navy
exchange pilot.

"Yes sir."

Wing King asked how long Motown had been in the Navy.

"Oh I'm not in the Navy, I'm an AF pilot on an exchange tour WITH the
Navy."

[pause for effect...] At this point the WK turned to the Sqdn CO and
just nodded...the Sqdn CO nodded. Motown got "squared away" ASAP.

Motown enjoyed his cruise on the Ranger. In fact at one point one guy
borrowed Motown's "100 Traps on the Ranger" patch and had 24 made up
that said, "I've Heard 100 Ranger Stories" For some strange reason
Motown stopped talking about the boat when we started wearing our
patches.

Motown also loved to call the squadron commander "skipper." The chorus
in response was usually, "Gilligan!" or "What is it little buddy?"

Juvat

f4phantom- n 1987 stationed at Kunsan, a new arrival was an AF type whose
previous tour was an exchange with VF-2 (I think) aboard the
Ranger...Bob "Motown" Records. BRBR

Great story, too bad Motown was put thru the USAF 'shredder' so fast. Hopefully
he didn't forget the good things he learned in the USN about how to fly.


P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer