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#2
January 29th 05, 04:47 PM
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:33:47 -0500, Andrew C. Toppan
wrote: On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:16:14 -0500, wrote: Whoever wrote what you replied to is an idiot. Diesel subs are noisy only while surfaced to recharge batteries but once submerged are extremely difficult to detect. I seem to recall that they are rather loud when snorting, too. "surfaced to recharge" and "snorting" are pretty much the same thing in terms of noise - the diesel is running. Actually, they are not. One is dramatically more noisy than the other. Once you turn off the diesel, they can be very, very quiet indeed. Yup. And they are also slow and working against the clock. Bill Kambic 
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#3
January 29th 05, 04:57 PM
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:47:35 -0500, wrote:
Yup. And they are also slow and working against the clock Slow is a relative thing; if one doesn't need to go far, speed is not a problem. Time is not as much an issue as it once was; modern diesel boats can stay under for quite a long time. This ain't WWII anymore. -- Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself" "Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/
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#4
January 29th 05, 05:05 PM
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:57:31 -0500, Andrew C. Toppan
wrote: On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:47:35 -0500, wrote: Yup. And they are also slow and working against the clock Slow is a relative thing; if one doesn't need to go far, speed is not a problem. Time is not as much an issue as it once was; modern diesel boats can stay under for quite a long time. This ain't WWII anymore. Indeed. But once you go to battery you are working against a finite limit. In WWII that limit may be been in the 24-36 hour range and by '62 had progressed to the 96 hour range. I have no idea what it is today. But that finite limit is still there. If the sub is just trying to hide then the time can be long. If he has to move that time dramatically shrinks. Bill Kambic
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#5
January 29th 05, 11:47 PM
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wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:57:31 -0500, Andrew C. Toppan wrote: On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:47:35 -0500, wrote: Yup. And they are also slow and working against the clock Slow is a relative thing; if one doesn't need to go far, speed is not a problem. Time is not as much an issue as it once was; modern diesel boats can stay under for quite a long time. This ain't WWII anymore. Indeed. But once you go to battery you are working against a finite limit. In WWII that limit may be been in the 24-36 hour range and by '62 had progressed to the 96 hour range. I have no idea what it is today. But that finite limit is still there. For the AIP subs coming into service now, it's a looong time. See http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/...propulsion.htm OTOH, I don't know how noisy they might be. Guy
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#6
January 29th 05, 11:56 PM
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:47:16 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote: wrote: On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:57:31 -0500, Andrew C. Toppan wrote: On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:47:35 -0500, wrote: Yup. And they are also slow and working against the clock Slow is a relative thing; if one doesn't need to go far, speed is not a problem. Time is not as much an issue as it once was; modern diesel boats can stay under for quite a long time. This ain't WWII anymore. Indeed. But once you go to battery you are working against a finite limit. In WWII that limit may be been in the 24-36 hour range and by '62 had progressed to the 96 hour range. I have no idea what it is today. But that finite limit is still there. For the AIP subs coming into service now, it's a looong time. See http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/...propulsion.htm OTOH, I don't know how noisy they might be. And therein lay an interesting question. :-) I have some suspicians, but don't have any insider info. If you are running on batteries then you are very quiet if you stay slow. If you go fast you drain your batteries AND you cavitate. Cavitation gives the hunder a detection opportunity. Like I say, non-nuke subs are a real and substantial threat. They are not, however, an ultimate threat. Bill Kambic
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#7
January 30th 05, 01:10 AM
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In article ,
wrote: Yup. And they are also slow and working against the clock Slow is a relative thing; if one doesn't need to go far, speed is not a problem. Time is not as much an issue as it once was; modern diesel boats can stay under for quite a long time. This ain't WWII anymore. Indeed. But once you go to battery you are working against a finite limit. In WWII that limit may be been in the 24-36 hour range and by '62 had progressed to the 96 hour range. I have no idea what it is today. But that finite limit is still there. For the AIP subs coming into service now, it's a looong time. See http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/...propulsion.htm OTOH, I don't know how noisy they might be. And therein lay an interesting question. :-) I have some suspicians, but don't have any insider info. If you are running on batteries then you are very quiet if you stay slow. If you go fast you drain your batteries AND you cavitate. Cavitation gives the hunder a detection opportunity. Like I say, non-nuke subs are a real and substantial threat. They are not, however, an ultimate threat. Not an ultimate threat know...but if you are relying on passive detection and/or low-power active buoys...you're not likely to hit pay dirt, and it's time to call the HS folks with their 2000 watts of active pinging power. --Mike
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#8
January 30th 05, 03:21 AM
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wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:47:16 GMT, Guy Alcala wrote: wrote: On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:57:31 -0500, Andrew C. Toppan wrote: On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:47:35 -0500, wrote: Yup. And they are also slow and working against the clock Slow is a relative thing; if one doesn't need to go far, speed is not a problem. Time is not as much an issue as it once was; modern diesel boats can stay under for quite a long time. This ain't WWII anymore. Indeed. But once you go to battery you are working against a finite limit. In WWII that limit may be been in the 24-36 hour range and by '62 had progressed to the 96 hour range. I have no idea what it is today. But that finite limit is still there. For the AIP subs coming into service now, it's a looong time. See http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/...propulsion.htm OTOH, I don't know how noisy they might be. And therein lay an interesting question. :-) I have some suspicians, but don't have any insider info. The unique source of the noise in an AIP boat would appear to be the need to expel the exhaust byproducts underwater. Guy
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#9
January 31st 05, 01:02 PM
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"Guy Alcala" skrev i meddelandet . .. For the AIP subs coming into service now, it's a looong time. See http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/...propulsion.htm Coming into service now?? The RSwN have been operating AIP subs since 1989. http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/nacken.html Regards, Per Nordenberg
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#10
February 1st 05, 02:52 AM
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Per Nordenberg wrote:
"Guy Alcala" skrev i meddelandet . .. For the AIP subs coming into service now, it's a looong time. See http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/...propulsion.htm Coming into service now?? The RSwN have been operating AIP subs since 1989. http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/nacken.html Yes I know, but they've only recently started to proliferate to countries outside Europe. Last time I checked the US didn't consider a war with Sweden very likely;-). Guy
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