Cessna 150 Price Outlook

I see. I guess that would explain the tremendous preference for 25 year old
cars, versus newer.

And, in fact, people who don't make much money *do* prefer old cars. For exactly
those reasons.

I've gotta add my weight to the "buy used" market segment. Until
my/our dreams come true and airplanes start costing $25,000 and
$50/year to operate, Aviation will be expensive! Even a 'dream' sport
aircraft will be expensive to own and operate. How would you expect to
get your 25' wingspan kitplane from the field to your local cheap auto
mechanic? Does anyone expect that on-field mechanics are going to be
as cheap for an oil change as the jiffy-lube down the street charging
$19.95?

Back to the used argument. I own, 100%/no financing, a 1997 Toyota
Camry that I purchased a year ago. I purchased it because it was
relatively safe, decent looking, reasonable on gas, and would get me
to and from work/weekend events etc. I went that route, because I want
to have enough money someday to own (part of?) a plane. When it comes
time to buy a plane, I'll probably go the same route: a used 172 or
cherokee for a first plane... why? the depreciation is mostly done
(almost all with the airplanes)... The safety records don't show that
2003 Toyotas are significantly better than 1997 ones, and with
airplanes this is even more obvious. When a pilot gets disoriented in
a cloud, or flies into the earth in IMC, no newfangled
Cirrus/Diamond/Kitplane/Cessna/whatever is going to save them and
their pax. Most of these airplanes (except the diamond/kitplane) use
the same engines that you can get at overhaul - negating a possible
argument for better reliability.

Finally - there's the tried and true argument I've read many times
here... I've also read horror stories about the new Cirrus planes
being in the shop for more labor hours than in the air by a factor of
2.

Anyhow - if a C152 ever drops in price from the current (guess range)
$20k to even $15k, I may just have to buy one! and that's supply and
demand... the price isn't going to drop much and I doubt at all...

"noah" wrote in message
I've gotta add my weight to the "buy used" market segment. Until
my/our dreams come true and airplanes start costing $25,000 and

You can get a Zodiac 601 HD flying with basic instruments and radios for
about $34,000. This is a good kit because it has very low construction time,
about 1/5 of what Van's RV aircraft require. The wings are removable so it
does not have to built at an airport.

A Rans Sakota can be had for about $24,000.

"Brent Rehmel" wrote in message
You can get a Zodiac 601 HD flying with basic instruments and radios for
about $34,000. This is a good kit because it has very low construction
time,
about 1/5 of what Van's RV aircraft require. The wings are removable so it

The build time for a Zodiac is a big factor. You can build a Zodiac 601 HD
from just the plans, shaping and cutting all of the aluminum yourself in
less time than it takes to build an RV-4. You can build a Zodiac from
scratch in the same amount of time it takes to build the latest prepunched
kits, like the RV-8.

You can build a Zodiac kit in about 1/4 the time as an RV-8 standard kit,
and it will still take 2 1/2 times as long to build the latest RV-8
quickbuild kit. The fastest a standard kit RV has ever been built is 87
days, the fastest a Zodiac has ever been built is 7 days.

You can get a Zodiac 601 HD flying with basic instruments and radios for
about $34,000. This is a good kit because it has very low construction time,
about 1/5 of what Van's RV aircraft require. The wings are removable so it
does not have to built at an airport.

A Rans Sakota can be had for about $24,000.

1. I don't know much about the Zodiac, and don't know anything about
the Sakota.

2. Explain to me how purchasing a fully functioning, on-field C152
with a good low time engine costs more than buying even the kit for a
Zodiac? Does the Zodiac at $34K include engine in the kit? (maybe -
I'm just asking). You can find good-looking, good spec C152s for well
under $25K.

3. Can I fly the Zodiac with pax? Can I put it on leaseback to a
flight school? Can I fly it in a busy class Bravo airspace
(Oakland/San Francisco, CA) ?

4. Can I build it in my 4th floor walkup (no elevator) apartment in a
city, with no garage? - even if I could - it wouldn't fit in my living
room, yet alone the fact that it wouldn't be a 'living room' anymore.

5. What is my time worth? You mention 1/5th the build time - let's say
300hrs @ 35/hr = $10,500 - and I have to work more than 40hrs/week as
it is!

6. Ok - the wings fold off. I don't have a garage - so what am I
supposed to do? purchase a trailer, have my Camry outfitted with a
hitch, and move it to the airport?

7. Does the Zodiac need a hangar for rain protection? (just asking -
maybe it's fine outdoors)? The local airports have decade long hangar
waiting lists.

These are just a few of my questions... I have nothing at all against
kitplanes - in fact, I have as a *long* term goal a great desire to
build something like an RV-6... faster, more fun, bubble canopy, great
looking, etc.

Maybe one day when I have a house, garage-workspace, and a very
supportive family, I'll consider that... for now - I can daydream of a
C172 partnership that I *know* will get me off the ground safely and
at practically the lowest cost possible.

"noah" wrote in message
om...
You can get a Zodiac 601 HD flying with basic instruments and radios for
about $34,000. This is a good kit because it has very low construction
time,
about 1/5 of what Van's RV aircraft require. The wings are removable so
it
does not have to built at an airport.

A Rans Sakota can be had for about $24,000.

1. I don't know much about the Zodiac, and don't know anything about
the Sakota.

2. Explain to me how purchasing a fully functioning, on-field C152
with a good low time engine costs more than buying even the kit for a
Zodiac? Does the Zodiac at $34K include engine in the kit? (maybe -
I'm just asking). You can find good-looking, good spec C152s for well
under $25K.

3. Can I fly the Zodiac with pax? Can I put it on leaseback to a
flight school? Can I fly it in a busy class Bravo airspace
(Oakland/San Francisco, CA) ?

4. Can I build it in my 4th floor walkup (no elevator) apartment in a
city, with no garage? - even if I could - it wouldn't fit in my living
room, yet alone the fact that it wouldn't be a 'living room' anymore.

5. What is my time worth? You mention 1/5th the build time - let's say
300hrs @ 35/hr = $10,500 - and I have to work more than 40hrs/week as
it is!

6. Ok - the wings fold off. I don't have a garage - so what am I
supposed to do? purchase a trailer, have my Camry outfitted with a
hitch, and move it to the airport?

7. Does the Zodiac need a hangar for rain protection? (just asking -
maybe it's fine outdoors)? The local airports have decade long hangar
waiting lists.

These are just a few of my questions... I have nothing at all against
kitplanes - in fact, I have as a *long* term goal a great desire to
build something like an RV-6... faster, more fun, bubble canopy, great
looking, etc.

Maybe one day when I have a house, garage-workspace, and a very
supportive family, I'll consider that... for now - I can daydream of a
C172 partnership that I *know* will get me off the ground safely and
at practically the lowest cost possible.

Ask him about resale value and insurance cost.

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:54:05 +0000, Dave Stadt wrote:

Ask him about resale value and insurance cost.

What resale value, and about that insurance. Mine is cheaper than what
I'd pay to fly a Zenith. I think he's got pie in the eye and is missing
something. I've known experimental owners to cut them up rather than sell
them, or other similar things so that they won't be sued by the next owner
when they crash. Not many do stupid things like that however.

Sure, you can build a Zenith for the price he's quoting, but I challenge
him to make it IFR equipped with a 0 time engine. I say 0 since he's
comparing a brand spanking new plane to 25 year old stuff like the older
planes are dangerous.

He can't do it. Look at what the kit costs, then add in a new engine, and
an IFR panel and he's well above what you can buy a 25 year old plane for.

Are you saying that you can buy a Cessna 150 that is IFR capable with, say,
1500 hours TBO for $25,000 - $35,000? If so, then I agree a C 150 would be a
good deal.

A Zodiac XL ready to fly would cost about $46,000 IFR equipped.

A Zodiac HD ready to fly would cost about $42,500 IFR equipped. However, it
wouldn't be legal to fly the HD in the U.S. so the comparison has to be for
the XL.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:29:22 +0000, Brent Rehmel wrote:

Are you saying that you can buy a Cessna 150 that is IFR capable with, say,
1500 hours TBO for $25,000 - $35,000? If so, then I agree a C 150 would be a
good deal.

That's exactly what I'm saying. The Cessna 150 club has 7 of them listed
right now, of course the highest in price is $38K, but I think it could be
had cheaper. It's got some very nice avionics however, better than what
you could put in that homebuilt for the prices you seem to think it can be
built for.

The o-200 has an 1800 TBO btw, and several of these planes had anywhere
from 0 to 1400 SMOH, a couple with less than 300 SMOH so they have more
hours to TBO than your Rotax has to start with.

This is what I'm saying, you have been under the impression a C150 is an
expensive plane, it's not. Nor is the Piper Tomahawk, or some other
trainers that have been produced. There are many planes for under $35,
including some older C172's, but a good one of those will usually run a
little more. You can usually find a Cherokee of under 35K as well. This
new class of plane will not hurt that market. If anything it will create
it's own niche because it's priced higher than similar used planes, but
lower than the new versions of those planes if they are even produced.

Many pilots buy a plane to meet their finances, not because it's new.
Given the choice of a Zenith 601XL for a price range in the $40's or a
C172 or older Mooney I'll go with the certified aircraft, especially the
Mooney as it's a much more capable plane.

I don't care about the new pilots certificate that may come out because I
don't need it. I can pass a medical right now, if I ever fail to pass one
forever, then I would convert, but not until then.

For all the training involved, I'd go the PP route, it's not going to cost
that much more by the time all is said and done. Remember, the numbers
are guides only, I doubt few will be able to accomplish the required goals
in the fewer number of hours.

"Brent Rehmel" writes:

Are you saying that you can buy a Cessna 150 that is IFR capable
with, say, 1500 hours TBO for $25,000 - $35,000?

That much or less, I'd hope (and the TBO is a little higher). Of
course, if you expect to find shiny, new avionics on board, you'll
have to raise the price a bit.


All the best,


David

Brent Rehmel wrote:

Are you saying that you can buy a Cessna 150 that is IFR capable with, say,
1500 hours TBO for $25,000 - $35,000? If so, then I agree a C 150 would be a
good deal.

You should be able to buy one for around 20K. In 1996, I had my '69 model up for
sale at $17,000 with an IFR stack, new interior, decent paint, and something
like 700 SMOH.

Right now, the most expensive 150 on the ASO site is an IFR 1975 model with a
new engine for $32,500. The least expensive is an IFR 1972 model with a nearly
run-out engine for $16,500.

George Patterson
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something that cannot
be learned any other way. Samuel Clemens