Possible?

cathanas wrote:
Hi,

I have wanted to get my pilot's license for most of my life. My
father was a pilot in WWII and Korea and owned airplanes up to the
time I was small. I am now in a position to start on my goal and I
need to ask a few questions answered. I fear I am searching for the
"Holy Grail", but can a person purchase a trainer (Cessna152 or maybe
a Piper 140), low engine time and in good shape, and hope to negotiate
a lease-back deal with a flight school in order to minimize the out-of
pocket expense of building time? I'm not looking at making a living
off of rental, just offsetting my fixed costs and pay for my gas. My
son and niece, both in college, also want to learn to fly, so I
figured we could all use the "family" plane. I have put together some
numbers based on information gleaned from the internet and it looks
possible. But again, I don't want to spend my time tying to invent a
perpetual motion machine when it doesn't exist. Any thoughts would be
appreciated.

Thanks

The leaseback deals I've seen, I wouldn't do it. Wouldn't be worth it.
I've been on the flight school side of leasebacks and in my
experience they are no bargain for the owner. Another thing is the 152
will be harder to lease to a flight school than a 172. At least in the
Atlanta, GA area that's true.

If you just buy the 152 outright, or with partners (son and niece?), and
use it to get your training, you will generally come out ahead, without
having to go the leaseback route. And since only the owners will be
flying the plane, it will be in better shape when it comes time to sell
it than it would if it were rented out.

If I had it to do over again (I was in your shoes exactly 5.5 years
ago), that's what I would do.
--
David Hill
david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA

David Hill wrote:
: If you just buy the 152 outright, or with partners (son and niece?), and
: use it to get your training, you will generally come out ahead, without
: having to go the leaseback route. And since only the owners will be
: flying the plane, it will be in better shape when it comes time to sell
: it than it would if it were rented out.

: If I had it to do over again (I was in your shoes exactly 5.5 years
: ago), that's what I would do.

That's what I should have done. I learned to fly 2 years ago the
"right" way. I went to the airport, said, "I'd like to learn to fly," and
42 hours of C172 rental later I was a pilot. Since then, I've learned the
"right" way is to buy a plane and hire someone to teach you how to fly it.
It might take a little longer and it doesn't provide quite as much
incentive to finish once you've soloed, since you can always hop in your
plane and beat around the patch. Especially with prospective partners,
buying can be a good idea. An (almost) runout Cessna 150 can be had for
$15-20K. Fly it for 100-200 hours, and sell it for the same. Run autogas
in it for $8-10/hour.

Something else that a friend of mine did. A Cherokee 140 costs
minimally more, but has quite a bit more utility. Something that won't
immediately be outgrown once you've got the ticket.

Anyway, just my thoughts.
-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

David Hill wrote:
cathanas wrote:

Hi,

I have wanted to get my pilot's license for most of my life. My
father was a pilot in WWII and Korea and owned airplanes up to the
time I was small. I am now in a position to start on my goal and I
need to ask a few questions answered. I fear I am searching for the
"Holy Grail", but can a person purchase a trainer (Cessna152 or maybe
a Piper 140), low engine time and in good shape, and hope to negotiate
a lease-back deal with a flight school in order to minimize the out-of
pocket expense of building time? I'm not looking at making a living
off of rental, just offsetting my fixed costs and pay for my gas. My
son and niece, both in college, also want to learn to fly, so I
figured we could all use the "family" plane. I have put together some
numbers based on information gleaned from the internet and it looks
possible. But again, I don't want to spend my time tying to invent a
perpetual motion machine when it doesn't exist. Any thoughts would be
appreciated.

Thanks


The leaseback deals I've seen, I wouldn't do it. Wouldn't be worth it.

It's possible to have a leaseback deal that is worth it, but the odds are
stacked against you. You're an aviation newbie negotiating a contract with a
company that's experienced in the aviation business. Unless you're clever,
you'll end up with a contract that favors the FBO, not you.

I've been on the flight school side of leasebacks and in my
experience they are no bargain for the owner. Another thing is the 152
will be harder to lease to a flight school than a 172. At least in the
Atlanta, GA area that's true.

Agreed. A 172 makes a perfectly good training airplane, but you might find it
will also meet some of your needs after the training is done. IMO the
maintenance expense is probably not significantly different from a 150/152. If
any of your family is other than petite, you might find some difficulty in
finding an instructor that can fly with you in a 150/152 without exceeding the
max gross weight.


If you just buy the 152 outright, or with partners (son and niece?), and
use it to get your training, you will generally come out ahead, without
having to go the leaseback route. And since only the owners will be
flying the plane, it will be in better shape when it comes time to sell
it than it would if it were rented out.

Agreed, that's a better idea.


If I had it to do over again (I was in your shoes exactly 5.5 years
ago), that's what I would do.

Me, too (but make that 15 years).

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