Cessna 150 Price Outlook

(Dan Thomas) writes:

Stall/spin accidents most often occur near the ground, such as in
the circuit, as I understand it, and spin training isn't going to
save you there. There won't be enough altitude for
recovery. Learning to recognize the situations that lead to spins is
another thing and should be taught thoroughly. We teach spins and
spin recoveries even in PPL training, using different real-life
scenarios (with lots of altitude) and lots of wing-drop stall
recoveries.

I trained in 2002 in rental 172's, before buying my Warrior. We
didn't do spins at all (except that my instructor demonstrated one
incipient spin), but we tried hard to get wing-drops on stalls -- I
succeeded well under 50% of the time, even in a power-on, 30-deg-bank
departure stall.

In my Warrior, I have yet to see a wing drop in a stall at all. I
don't want to risk a spin or snap roll by stalling severely
uncoordinated, but nothing that I am willing to do -- various
combinations of fast stall, slow stall, power-on, power-off, wings
level, banked -- will drop a wing or really do anything other than
make the nose buffet up and down a little.


All the best,


David

David Megginson wrote:
: In my Warrior, I have yet to see a wing drop in a stall at all. I
: don't want to risk a spin or snap roll by stalling severely
: uncoordinated, but nothing that I am willing to do -- various
: combinations of fast stall, slow stall, power-on, power-off, wings
: level, banked -- will drop a wing or really do anything other than
: make the nose buffet up and down a little.

The Cherokee I fly has more or less the same tendencies, but it's
heavily dependent on the CG. The PA-28's have a very forward CG, which
makes them "auto-recover" so to speak from the stall. A bit of
buffetting, nose drops slightly and breaks the stall. Try it with a more
aft CG (than the usual full tanks and 1 or 2 people up front) and it gets
a bit more aggressive. I wouldn't recommend anything but a simple stall
in that more aft (Still in Normal, but more aft than Utility)
configuration, as spinning could be bad.

-Cory

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David Megginson wrote:

I trained in 2002 in rental 172's
We didn't do spins at all

About 5 years ago, Transport Canada Aviation removed the
requirement for spins from the Cdn Private licence. Spins
are still required for the Commercial licence in Canada.

Given the definition of "aerobatic maneuvre" in CAR 101.01(1)
a fully-developed spin is pretty clearly an aerobatic maneuver,
and in a perfect world, perhaps fully-developed spins (upright,
inverted, accelerated, flat, etc) would best be taught by aerobatic
instructors in aerobatic aircraft, with the occupants wearing
emergency parachutes. IMHO.

That said, I think every pilot should know how to deal with
a dropping wing, either on departure or turning final, long
before it has a chance to develop into a full spin below 500 AGL.

--
ATP www.pittspecials.com

David Megginson wrote in message ...

I trained in 2002 in rental 172's, before buying my Warrior. We
didn't do spins at all (except that my instructor demonstrated one
incipient spin), but we tried hard to get wing-drops on stalls -- I
succeeded well under 50% of the time, even in a power-on, 30-deg-bank
departure stall.


Too much bank. Try ten degrees, and outside wing will drop fairly
promptly, especially if banking right.

Dan

David Megginson wrote in message ...
(Dan Thomas) writes:

Stall/spin accidents most often occur near the ground, such as in
the circuit, as I understand it, and spin training isn't going to
save you there. There won't be enough altitude for
recovery. Learning to recognize the situations that lead to spins is
another thing and should be taught thoroughly. We teach spins and
spin recoveries even in PPL training, using different real-life
scenarios (with lots of altitude) and lots of wing-drop stall
recoveries.

I trained in 2002 in rental 172's, before buying my Warrior. We
didn't do spins at all (except that my instructor demonstrated one
incipient spin), but we tried hard to get wing-drops on stalls -- I
succeeded well under 50% of the time, even in a power-on, 30-deg-bank
departure stall.

In my Warrior, I have yet to see a wing drop in a stall at all. I
don't want to risk a spin or snap roll by stalling severely
uncoordinated, but nothing that I am willing to do -- various
combinations of fast stall, slow stall, power-on, power-off, wings
level, banked -- will drop a wing or really do anything other than
make the nose buffet up and down a little.


Gee, in my Mooney I have yet to do a stall that doesn't result in a wing drop.

(Robert M. Gary) writes:

Gee, in my Mooney I have yet to do a stall that doesn't result in a
wing drop.

As far as I understand, the tricks that make for a docile stall, like
a lot of wing twist, also increase drag. I guess that's why people
don't buy Mooneys for training or Cherokees for speed.


All the best,


David

(Robert M. Gary) wrote in message . com...
Gee, in my Mooney I have yet to do a stall that doesn't result in a wing drop.

Either uncoordinated or the wing is out of rig. Where are the
ailerons in cruise? Deflected a bit?

Dan