First Plane Question?

"Tom Hyslip" writes:

I am looking to purchase my first plane, and would like an early 80s
Cessna 152. How much should I consider the fair market price for
one in descent shape, that is ready to fly? Also, any idea how much
insurance would be for a C152. I only have around 50 hours, a very
new pilot, and I love it.

The 152 is a great plane, from everything I've heard, but it's worth
considering other options to make sure that you get what you want.
Here are some considerations:

1. There are some four-seat planes, like the Piper Cherokee 140 and
Beech Musketeer, that are in about the same price range as a 152
(both for buying and flying), but go faster and carry more.

2. Buying a used plane is often the cheapest part of ownership --
insurance, maintenance, fuel, parking, etc. will burn through a
fair bit of money every year. If you are looking at a 152 because
money is tight, you might want to get your feet wet with a
partnership first, where you can share some fixed expenses.

I started out looking for a Cessna 172 or similar, because that's what
I trained it. I initially ruled out Cherokees right at the start
because they have only a single door, and because I didn't know much
about them. Fortunately, after trying out a Cardinal that I didn't
like much, I happened to notice a Piper Cherokee Warrior II for sale,
and looking at it in person got rid of most of my prejudices --
compared to the (fixed-gear) Cardinal I had just test flown, it had
better avionics, better paint and interior, a higher useful load,
faster airspeed, lower fuel burn, *and* a significantly lower price
(precisely because everyone who trains in Cessnas wants to buy a
Cessna, driving up the used prices).

Now, with under 8 gph fuel burn at 75% power (8.5 gph by the POH) and
roughly the same systems to maintain, the plane doesn't cost much more
to operate than a 150/152, but it cruises much faster (well over 120
ktas) and with a full-fuel useful load around 650 lb, it can carry my
whole family of four + luggage + dog.

I'm not suggesting that a Cherokee is the right first plane for you
just because it was for me, but I am suggesting that you not
automatically buy the kind of plane you trained in. It's a big
investment, so look around a while and make sure. Personally, I'm
glad that I overcame my own initial prejudices against non-Cessnas.


All the best,


David

David,

Thanks for the advice, I will certainly look at some other make / model
planes. It makes a lot of sense.

I think a partnership would be the best way for me to start, but I haven't
been able to find any in my area, so I decided to look at buying one myself.

The Piper Cherokee Warrior you purchased sounds very useful. Right now I
am looking for something to build time in, have fun, and work on my
instrument rating. But, down the road something simliar to the Warrior is
what I would like, with the good payload and speed, for a decent price.

Thanks again.

If anyone knows of partnerships forsale in the Raleigh, NC area, I would
appreciate the info.

Tom
"David Megginson" wrote in message
...
"Tom Hyslip" writes:

I am looking to purchase my first plane, and would like an early 80s
Cessna 152. How much should I consider the fair market price for
one in descent shape, that is ready to fly? Also, any idea how much
insurance would be for a C152. I only have around 50 hours, a very
new pilot, and I love it.

The 152 is a great plane, from everything I've heard, but it's worth
considering other options to make sure that you get what you want.
Here are some considerations:

1. There are some four-seat planes, like the Piper Cherokee 140 and
Beech Musketeer, that are in about the same price range as a 152
(both for buying and flying), but go faster and carry more.

2. Buying a used plane is often the cheapest part of ownership --
insurance, maintenance, fuel, parking, etc. will burn through a
fair bit of money every year. If you are looking at a 152 because
money is tight, you might want to get your feet wet with a
partnership first, where you can share some fixed expenses.

I started out looking for a Cessna 172 or similar, because that's what
I trained it. I initially ruled out Cherokees right at the start
because they have only a single door, and because I didn't know much
about them. Fortunately, after trying out a Cardinal that I didn't
like much, I happened to notice a Piper Cherokee Warrior II for sale,
and looking at it in person got rid of most of my prejudices --
compared to the (fixed-gear) Cardinal I had just test flown, it had
better avionics, better paint and interior, a higher useful load,
faster airspeed, lower fuel burn, *and* a significantly lower price
(precisely because everyone who trains in Cessnas wants to buy a
Cessna, driving up the used prices).

Now, with under 8 gph fuel burn at 75% power (8.5 gph by the POH) and
roughly the same systems to maintain, the plane doesn't cost much more
to operate than a 150/152, but it cruises much faster (well over 120
ktas) and with a full-fuel useful load around 650 lb, it can carry my
whole family of four + luggage + dog.

I'm not suggesting that a Cherokee is the right first plane for you
just because it was for me, but I am suggesting that you not
automatically buy the kind of plane you trained in. It's a big
investment, so look around a while and make sure. Personally, I'm
glad that I overcame my own initial prejudices against non-Cessnas.


All the best,


David

"Tom Hyslip" writes:

I think a partnership would be the best way for me to start, but I
haven't been able to find any in my area, so I decided to look at
buying one myself.

I ended up making the same choice -- I initially talked to someone
interested in a partnership, but I was in more of a hurry than him.

I think that the best kind of partnership would have been getting
involved with a couple of people who were already experienced with
owning. It is unbelievable how much there is to learn -- probably
many, many times what we learn in groundschool. I've had some
friendly AME's over the past year who have encouraged me to do some of
the work on the plane myself (including an owner-assisted annual), but
it's still been a cheap curve.

The Piper Cherokee Warrior you purchased sounds very useful. Right
now I am looking for something to build time in, have fun, and work
on my instrument rating. But, down the road something simliar to
the Warrior is what I would like, with the good payload and speed,
for a decent price.

It might be for sale in a few years as my kids get bigger and I need
more load. Best of luck with the search. Since you live in a
well-populated area, it might be a good idea to go around to local
FBO's (say, within a two-hour drive) and get checked out on as many
different types of rental planes as you can -- Cessnas, Pipers,
Beechcraft, Katana's, etc. You never know what you'll fall in love
with.


All the best,


David

On 2-Nov-2003, "Tom Hyslip" wrote:

I think a partnership would be the best way for me to start, but I haven't
been able to find any in my area, so I decided to look at buying one
myself.

The Piper Cherokee Warrior you purchased sounds very useful. Right now I
am looking for something to build time in, have fun, and work on my
instrument rating. But, down the road something similar to the Warrior is
what I would like, with the good payload and speed, for a decent price.


Tom:

The advantages and disadvantages of co-ownership ("partnership")
arrangements have been discussed in many threads in this NG. You can find
them using a Google Groups search.

If you are planning to begin instrument training in the foreseeable future,
you will certainly want to look for an airplane that is at least minimally
equipped for IFR. The cost of adding equipment later will be far greater
than the higher price of an already-equipped bird. You will probably find
few 150/152s that are IFR equipped, and their small range and payload make
them marginally suited for IFR at any rate. I think you should check out
Cherokee 140s, a far more capable airplane than a 150/152 (in terms of
payload, range, speed, and typical equipment level) for not much more money
(purchase price and operating costs).
--
-Elliott Drucker