More plane ownership?

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


Henry Bibb wrote:

When the planes were being made, the airlines of the day were not
quite twice as fast, and the cost of airline travel was far higher. Today
if you fly a fast piston powered airplane you're going, relative to the
airlines, half as fast for four times the cost.

Some grist for the mill, methinks.


Only if you're going further than about 1500 miles. We may not fly as fast, but
we don't have to show up at the airport two hours ahead to get through security,
and we don't have to fly 500 miles out of the way to go through some hub, and we
don't have to spend an hour or two at a layover when we get to that hub.

I cruise at 126 mph and I can beat Delta from my house in New Jersey to my mother's
house in Knoxville, TN without pushing hard.


I don't doubt it for this distance, but I also don't think GA pilots
honestly account for how long a flight takes.

You have to include your flight planning time, as well as door-to-door
time when comparing flying somewhere to driving there, for example. I
take a lot of flights around 100nm, and quite frankly I don't think in
any of them I saved any time over driving when I honestly account for
ALL the time the flight took, including planning and preparation. But I
still do it because I love to fly.

I figure that will change when I start flying longer distances.

"TTA Cherokee Driver" wrote:
...I also don't think GA pilots
honestly account for how long a flight takes.

True. I often fly from Mobile to Dothan, AL on business. The round trip
drive from my house is 6.5 hours. The round trip flight is 2 hours, 40
min. - flying time that is. But here's the real story:

get weather, read NOTAMs & file (DUATS): 10 min.
drive to KBFM: 15 min.
get in gate, load & preflight airplane, (incl. some task like adding
oil) 20 min.
start, get ATIS & clearance, taxi & runup: 15 min. (it's a long taxi)
fly to KDHN: 1 hour, 20 min.
taxi & park, leave fuel order: 10 min.
get a ride to the terminal & pick up rent car: 15 min.
drive to customer's site: 10 min.
drive back to KDHN: 10 min.
get weather, get NOTAMs & file: 10 min.
preflight, startup, get ATIS & clearance, taxi & runup: 10 min.
fly to KBFM: 1 hour, 20 min.
taxi & park, unload & secure airplane, get out gate : 10 min.
drive home: 15 min.

Total: 5.17 hours.
So I save an hour+ by flying, and that's on a good day when everything
goes perfectly. Still, even if I saved only half an hour, I'd fly
anyway. I hate that drive.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

In article ,
"Dan Luke" wrote:

"TTA Cherokee Driver" wrote:
...I also don't think GA pilots
honestly account for how long a flight takes.

True. I often fly from Mobile to Dothan, AL on business. The round trip
drive from my house is 6.5 hours. The round trip flight is 2 hours, 40
min. - flying time that is. But here's the real story:

get weather, read NOTAMs & file (DUATS): 10 min.
drive to KBFM: 15 min.
get in gate, load & preflight airplane, (incl. some task like adding
oil) 20 min.
start, get ATIS & clearance, taxi & runup: 15 min. (it's a long taxi)
fly to KDHN: 1 hour, 20 min.
taxi & park, leave fuel order: 10 min.
get a ride to the terminal & pick up rent car: 15 min.
drive to customer's site: 10 min.
drive back to KDHN: 10 min.
get weather, get NOTAMs & file: 10 min.
preflight, startup, get ATIS & clearance, taxi & runup: 10 min.
fly to KBFM: 1 hour, 20 min.
taxi & park, unload & secure airplane, get out gate : 10 min.
drive home: 15 min.

Total: 5.17 hours.
So I save an hour+ by flying, and that's on a good day when everything
goes perfectly. Still, even if I saved only half an hour, I'd fly
anyway. I hate that drive.


It gets better when your plane is in a hangar in your back yard:

get weather, read NOTAMs & file (DUATS): 10 min.

load & preflight airplane, (incl. some task like adding
oil) 20 min.

Taxi to runway: 5 min (also serves as engine warmup)

Still, even if I saved only half an hour, I'd fly
anyway. I hate that drive.

Amen... Even if they took the same time, I would rather fly... The 6.5 hour
drive is just that, 6.5 hours of sitting and driving the car. The other way
is only 2.66 hours of 'driving' the plane and 3.8 hours of other activities
that are not nearly as boring as staring at the car in front of me. (plus
the car doesn't have a directional autopilot g)

Dave
N9560L at GLS
74 Grumman AA5


"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"TTA Cherokee Driver" wrote:
...I also don't think GA pilots
honestly account for how long a flight takes.

True. I often fly from Mobile to Dothan, AL on business. The round trip
drive from my house is 6.5 hours. The round trip flight is 2 hours, 40
min. - flying time that is. But here's the real story:

get weather, read NOTAMs & file (DUATS): 10 min.
drive to KBFM: 15 min.
get in gate, load & preflight airplane, (incl. some task like adding
oil) 20 min.
start, get ATIS & clearance, taxi & runup: 15 min. (it's a long taxi)
fly to KDHN: 1 hour, 20 min.
taxi & park, leave fuel order: 10 min.
get a ride to the terminal & pick up rent car: 15 min.
drive to customer's site: 10 min.
drive back to KDHN: 10 min.
get weather, get NOTAMs & file: 10 min.
preflight, startup, get ATIS & clearance, taxi & runup: 10 min.
fly to KBFM: 1 hour, 20 min.
taxi & park, unload & secure airplane, get out gate : 10 min.
drive home: 15 min.

Total: 5.17 hours.
So I save an hour+ by flying, and that's on a good day when everything
goes perfectly. Still, even if I saved only half an hour, I'd fly
anyway. I hate that drive.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

Once upon a time - 6 college "kids" wanted to go to Virginia from Texas for
spring break. 3 went by commertial air carrier and 3 traveled in a Mooney
owned by a friend's father.

Longs story short - The commertial fliers flew from IAH to ORF with one
layover/plane change. First flight was delayed, they had to take another
connecting flight that was now overbooked, one guy got bumped, and the
others waited patiently with him.

The GA fliers left an hour after the commertial fliers were originally
supposed to be in the air (due to preflight and all) from another Houston
airport (HOU) and flew directly to MFV - 10 minutes from the vacation
getaway with 2 stops for fuel and R&R (sorry - no bathroom in a mooney).
The airport courtesy car took us to our final destination and refused a tip.
We arrived at "the getaway" about 6:30 pm (had left Houston around 7:45 that
morning) and were well on our way to enjoying ourselves when our buddies
arrived at 11:00 pm after troubling my parents to meet them at the airport,
not arriving on time, and not calling when they knew they would be late.

The return was a bit differrent - we stopped in New Orleans for a day
because we felt like it.

Cost - my 1/3 of the round trip was $300 - competitive with an airline
ticket if not cheaper. OOPS - WRONG - that trip is what hooked me on GA
flying and it has actually cost me thousands in training, rental, and
gadgets since. WOULD I DO IT AGAIN? HELL YES!

The question here isn't what's cheap - but WHAT IS IT WORTH TO YOU? Dave


"Dave Covert" wrote in message
...
Still, even if I saved only half an hour, I'd fly
anyway. I hate that drive.

Amen... Even if they took the same time, I would rather fly... The 6.5
hour
drive is just that, 6.5 hours of sitting and driving the car. The other
way
is only 2.66 hours of 'driving' the plane and 3.8 hours of other
activities
that are not nearly as boring as staring at the car in front of me. (plus
the car doesn't have a directional autopilot g)

Dave
N9560L at GLS
74 Grumman AA5


"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"TTA Cherokee Driver" wrote:
...I also don't think GA pilots
honestly account for how long a flight takes.

True. I often fly from Mobile to Dothan, AL on business. The round trip
drive from my house is 6.5 hours. The round trip flight is 2 hours, 40
min. - flying time that is. But here's the real story:

get weather, read NOTAMs & file (DUATS): 10 min.
drive to KBFM: 15 min.
get in gate, load & preflight airplane, (incl. some task like adding
oil) 20 min.
start, get ATIS & clearance, taxi & runup: 15 min. (it's a long taxi)
fly to KDHN: 1 hour, 20 min.
taxi & park, leave fuel order: 10 min.
get a ride to the terminal & pick up rent car: 15 min.
drive to customer's site: 10 min.
drive back to KDHN: 10 min.
get weather, get NOTAMs & file: 10 min.
preflight, startup, get ATIS & clearance, taxi & runup: 10 min.
fly to KBFM: 1 hour, 20 min.
taxi & park, unload & secure airplane, get out gate : 10 min.
drive home: 15 min.

Total: 5.17 hours.
So I save an hour+ by flying, and that's on a good day when everything
goes perfectly. Still, even if I saved only half an hour, I'd fly
anyway. I hate that drive.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)








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David wrote:

Once upon a time - 6 college "kids" wanted to go to Virginia from Texas for
spring break. 3 went by commertial air carrier and 3 traveled in a Mooney
owned by a friend's father.

Nice post. Made me think back. Every round-trip that I've made on the airlines for
personal reasons has had one leg seriously delayed. That ranged from spending the
first night of our honeymoon in Tampa instead of Sanibel due to a broken Delta
airplane to flying Delta back from Knoxville instead of United because United
couldn't handle the headwinds.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

I don't necessarily count all the hours except door to door.

Flight planning may take time, but so does shopping for a ticket price, or
making sure the car is ready for the trip. Also, being considerate, I over
value the time of my host when I visit someone. No one minds driving 15
minutes to get you, but when are asking them to pick you up at a major
airport, you can be taking a lot of their time.

Anyway, my most common trip is a 3-3.5 hour drive, and realisticly not much
better door to door in the airplane (maybe 2.5 at best). Now, if I could
talk the wife into moving away from downtown, I could save an hour each way
( I live 15 to 30 minutes from the airport depending on traffic)

To me, its the fun of flying there that makes it worth it anyway. But then,
I have a fun plane, rather than a serious hauler. Also, when I get there, I
can take my friends flying.


"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"TTA Cherokee Driver" wrote:
...I also don't think GA pilots
honestly account for how long a flight takes.

True. I often fly from Mobile to Dothan, AL on business. The round trip
drive from my house is 6.5 hours. The round trip flight is 2 hours, 40
min. - flying time that is. But here's the real story:

get weather, read NOTAMs & file (DUATS): 10 min.
drive to KBFM: 15 min.
get in gate, load & preflight airplane, (incl. some task like adding
oil) 20 min.
start, get ATIS & clearance, taxi & runup: 15 min. (it's a long taxi)
fly to KDHN: 1 hour, 20 min.
taxi & park, leave fuel order: 10 min.
get a ride to the terminal & pick up rent car: 15 min.
drive to customer's site: 10 min.
drive back to KDHN: 10 min.
get weather, get NOTAMs & file: 10 min.
preflight, startup, get ATIS & clearance, taxi & runup: 10 min.
fly to KBFM: 1 hour, 20 min.
taxi & park, unload & secure airplane, get out gate : 10 min.
drive home: 15 min.

Total: 5.17 hours.
So I save an hour+ by flying, and that's on a good day when everything
goes perfectly. Still, even if I saved only half an hour, I'd fly
anyway. I hate that drive.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

TTA Cherokee Driver wrote:

I take a lot of flights around 100nm, and quite frankly I don't think in
any of them I saved any time over driving when I honestly account for
ALL the time the flight took, including planning and preparation.

Yeah, 100 miles is about the break-even point. A few months back, I posted about
picking my mother up at Cape Map in the Maule. That's about 100nm. Had I driven
down, it would've been about two hours down and two back. As it was, it was 45
minutes to the airport and about 15 to get untied and in the air. The air time
was about two hours, and we had about an hour to tie her down and drive home.

About the same either way, but I still think the Maule beats the Parkway.

There's another plus. Mama hates headsets, so she was only able to talk to me for
the 45 minute drive home. That alone is worth the cost of the avgas. :-)

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

shoot, looking up a plane ticket on the internet takes me longer to do then my flight
planning.
My flight planning consists of basically punching it into duats, printing it out, going
to my plane, punching it into my GPS and away I go.

when I fly to los angeles, it takes about 4-5 hours depending on traffic, I can fly to LA
in 1:15 . No headaches because of traffic. Like today, a bad accident on i-15 near
barstow, 4 dead, highway closed untill at least 10pm tonight (what the news said).


You have to include your flight planning time, as well as door-to-door
time when comparing flying somewhere to driving there, for example. I
take a lot of flights around 100nm, and quite frankly I don't think in
any of them I saved any time over driving when I honestly account for
ALL the time the flight took, including planning and preparation. But I
still do it because I love to fly.

I figure that will change when I start flying longer distances.