Getting a little sick of it all

"Roger Tracy" wrote in message . ..
snip
I don't buy junk. I don't fly junk. I take care of my
planes ..
so if there's any issues they're pretty minor ones. So while I'm not
inflexible on price ..
using the prebuy and a discrepensy list to try to haggle the price down ..
just don't
work.

You're sure that any issues will be minor ones? Often, having a
different A&P look at a plane will uncover a problem that wasn't
noticed by the current one. I'd say you'd have to qualify your
statement above. If the prebuy uncovered significant discrepancies
that you did not know about (or tell him about), why shouldn't the
seller expect you to adjust the price accordingly.

I agree in general that a buyer who wants to nitpick minor items
into big price adjustments should probably be shown the door. But on
the other hand, as a buyer, the prepurchase inspection will probably
be the single biggest factor in determining the true value of the
airplane.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Idd rather take a few hundred dollar loss in a pre purchace inspection than
a $20,000 or more loss


"John Galban" wrote in message
om...
"Roger Tracy" wrote in message
. ..
snip
I don't buy junk. I don't fly junk. I take care of my
planes ..
so if there's any issues they're pretty minor ones. So while I'm not
inflexible on price ..
using the prebuy and a discrepensy list to try to haggle the price down
...
just don't
work.

You're sure that any issues will be minor ones? Often, having a
different A&P look at a plane will uncover a problem that wasn't
noticed by the current one. I'd say you'd have to qualify your
statement above. If the prebuy uncovered significant discrepancies
that you did not know about (or tell him about), why shouldn't the
seller expect you to adjust the price accordingly.

I agree in general that a buyer who wants to nitpick minor items
into big price adjustments should probably be shown the door. But on
the other hand, as a buyer, the prepurchase inspection will probably
be the single biggest factor in determining the true value of the
airplane.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

On 4 Mar 2004 15:36:15 -0800, (John Galban) wrote:

"Roger Tracy" wrote in message . ..
snip
I don't buy junk. I don't fly junk. I take care of my
planes ..
so if there's any issues they're pretty minor ones. So while I'm not
inflexible on price ..
using the prebuy and a discrepensy list to try to haggle the price down ..
just don't
work.

You're sure that any issues will be minor ones? Often, having a
different A&P look at a plane will uncover a problem that wasn't
noticed by the current one. I'd say you'd have to qualify your
statement above. If the prebuy uncovered significant discrepancies
that you did not know about (or tell him about), why shouldn't the
seller expect you to adjust the price accordingly.

I agree in general that a buyer who wants to nitpick minor items
into big price adjustments should probably be shown the door. But on
the other hand, as a buyer, the prepurchase inspection will probably
be the single biggest factor in determining the true value of the
airplane.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

My thought is, how many airplanes (percentage-wise) would pass the
"gauntlet" as-it-were (as it is being described here) without some
other mechanic picking up some previously missed item or items? I
mean, how many airplanes (in our aging fleet) are truly squeaky clean?

For those airplanes that are squeaky clean, what is that worth in the
marketplace? Might it be worth a premium over what might be called
a "standard" (going) price? In the collector / vintage car market,
there are rather well defined categories with regards to pedigree,
condition, originality, etc. Original cream puffs or expertly
restored examples bring top dollar. Junk brings bottom dollar, with
everything in-between.

Like another poster stated, these airplanes are getting old (50+
years in many cases). There are completely, lovingly restored
cream-puff airplanes out there for sale, but the owners of such are
not exactly giving them away. On the other end of the spectrum, there
are complete pieces of worn out junk out there as well, masquerading
as good, solid airplanes.

I'm inclined to think along the lines of, does the current "accepted
market value" for a particular type of airplane mean it needs to
be a perfect / cream puff example? I think if you're looking for a
perfect, "cream-puff" airplane, you should be prepared to pay for it.
Suffice it to say, it will be cheaper to pay top dollar for a cream
puff as opposed to buying a junker and trying to make cream puff out
of it (at least if you just write checks to have it restored as
opposed to doing it yourself). If you're looking for a deal too good
to be true, it probably is, so be careful out there.

Somewhere between these two extremes, (junkers & cream puffs) good
airplanes can be bought that will bring years of good service &
enjoyment.

Bela P. Havasreti

Good points. The "accepted market value" is for an average airplane. The
average airplane gets repaired when it is unairworthy and issues are
deferred if possible. All the owners here think that their airplanes are
"well maintained" so it is like the situation with drivers, 97% of whom
think that they are better than average.

Mike
MU-2

"Bela P. Havasreti" wrote in message
news
On 4 Mar 2004 15:36:15 -0800, (John Galban) wrote:

"Roger Tracy" wrote in message
. ..
snip
I don't buy junk. I don't fly junk. I take care of my
planes ..
so if there's any issues they're pretty minor ones. So while I'm not
inflexible on price ..
using the prebuy and a discrepensy list to try to haggle the price down
...
just don't
work.

You're sure that any issues will be minor ones? Often, having a
different A&P look at a plane will uncover a problem that wasn't
noticed by the current one. I'd say you'd have to qualify your
statement above. If the prebuy uncovered significant discrepancies
that you did not know about (or tell him about), why shouldn't the
seller expect you to adjust the price accordingly.

I agree in general that a buyer who wants to nitpick minor items
into big price adjustments should probably be shown the door. But on
the other hand, as a buyer, the prepurchase inspection will probably
be the single biggest factor in determining the true value of the
airplane.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

My thought is, how many airplanes (percentage-wise) would pass the
"gauntlet" as-it-were (as it is being described here) without some
other mechanic picking up some previously missed item or items? I
mean, how many airplanes (in our aging fleet) are truly squeaky clean?

For those airplanes that are squeaky clean, what is that worth in the
marketplace? Might it be worth a premium over what might be called
a "standard" (going) price? In the collector / vintage car market,
there are rather well defined categories with regards to pedigree,
condition, originality, etc. Original cream puffs or expertly
restored examples bring top dollar. Junk brings bottom dollar, with
everything in-between.

Like another poster stated, these airplanes are getting old (50+
years in many cases). There are completely, lovingly restored
cream-puff airplanes out there for sale, but the owners of such are
not exactly giving them away. On the other end of the spectrum, there
are complete pieces of worn out junk out there as well, masquerading
as good, solid airplanes.

I'm inclined to think along the lines of, does the current "accepted
market value" for a particular type of airplane mean it needs to
be a perfect / cream puff example? I think if you're looking for a
perfect, "cream-puff" airplane, you should be prepared to pay for it.
Suffice it to say, it will be cheaper to pay top dollar for a cream
puff as opposed to buying a junker and trying to make cream puff out
of it (at least if you just write checks to have it restored as
opposed to doing it yourself). If you're looking for a deal too good
to be true, it probably is, so be careful out there.

Somewhere between these two extremes, (junkers & cream puffs) good
airplanes can be bought that will bring years of good service &
enjoyment.

Bela P. Havasreti