Opinions on Cessna 340, 414 and 421

You are definitely asking the right questions about the twins. And
you are right to be asking here before getting out your checkbook. In
the traditional r.a.owning way - keep asking the questions and we'll
keep saying you can't afford it until you're stuck on the ground.

Yeah, a while back I was asking about a favorite plane of mine, the
T210, and they were close to having me talked out of buying it, or
anything else. The dream to fly and own is persistant, though.


Seriously though, $20-30k for 100hrs/year works out to $200-300/hr.
It is impossible to own/operate a 421 for $200/hr. The GTSIO520s burn
25gph (each) in cruise. Given the $3/gallon prices we have in Chicago
- that's $150/hr right there.

A 421 is almost certainly more plane than I need. The 340 is probably
closer to the truth, but is more crampt than the 414. If I can find a
414 that I can afford, both on the front and back end, then that might
be the bird. Assuming, of course, that wing spar AD doesn't kill all
300/400 Cessnas.

So a rough estimate per hour
Fuel: $150
Oil: $6
Eng Reserve: $45
Tiedown $6
Insurance: $100
------------------------------------
That's close to $300 and it does not include annual inspections or
misc maintenance costs.

Thanks for the writeup. This kind of stuff is invaluable in helping
the decision process.

John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

"john szpara" wrote in message
s.com...

You are definitely asking the right questions about the twins. And
you are right to be asking here before getting out your checkbook. In
the traditional r.a.owning way - keep asking the questions and we'll
keep saying you can't afford it until you're stuck on the ground.

Yeah, a while back I was asking about a favorite plane of mine, the
T210, and they were close to having me talked out of buying it, or
anything else. The dream to fly and own is persistant, though.



Seriously, don't let anybody talk you out of doing what you want to do
because you will regret it. I think most of the posters here are just
trying to make sure that you think of all the angles.

I am seriously thinking of getting rid of my current airplane in the next
few years for many of the reasons that have been brought up. Going to
Simcom is a minimium of four days and $15,000. Going in for maitenance is
two days just to drop off the airplane and pick it up again. There is no
way that I save SIX DAYS a year by owning an airplane. I don't fly around
anymore just to look out the window. My plan is to build a Murphy Moose (6
place bushplane) that can be maintained by myself and where I can get
training locally. I would also save well over $100k/yr in expenses. I can
find the time and I can afford the price but I am reaching the point where I
ask myself if I really want to. Once you cross a certain threshold of
airplane performance, the commitment, both in term of time and money starts
growing geometrically.

Mike
MU-2

On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 04:35:56 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

Interesting. The *only* reason I fly is to enjoy the view out the
window (to the tune of 200+ hours per year), and to transport myself
to (relatively local) places I've never been before, or to go places
you can only get to with an airplane (most of which, you can only get
to with a "bush" airplane).

I own a simple/old tail-dragger now, but in earlier days, I used to
long for high/fast stuff (the more complex, the better, although
I've never had the pleasure of flying equipment like you're
airplane Mike).

These days, something like a Champ on a summer day at 800' AGL
putting along at 85-90mph is my idea of fun. If I need to get across
the country in a hurry, I hop onto a tube (airliner).

The Murphy Moose is a neat rig. If I were to build one, I'd have to
hang/use the M-14PF (400hp) engine.

Bela P. Havasreti


"john szpara" wrote in message
ws.com...

You are definitely asking the right questions about the twins. And
you are right to be asking here before getting out your checkbook. In
the traditional r.a.owning way - keep asking the questions and we'll
keep saying you can't afford it until you're stuck on the ground.

Yeah, a while back I was asking about a favorite plane of mine, the
T210, and they were close to having me talked out of buying it, or
anything else. The dream to fly and own is persistant, though.



Seriously, don't let anybody talk you out of doing what you want to do
because you will regret it. I think most of the posters here are just
trying to make sure that you think of all the angles.

I am seriously thinking of getting rid of my current airplane in the next
few years for many of the reasons that have been brought up. Going to
Simcom is a minimium of four days and $15,000. Going in for maitenance is
two days just to drop off the airplane and pick it up again. There is no
way that I save SIX DAYS a year by owning an airplane. I don't fly around
anymore just to look out the window. My plan is to build a Murphy Moose (6
place bushplane) that can be maintained by myself and where I can get
training locally. I would also save well over $100k/yr in expenses. I can
find the time and I can afford the price but I am reaching the point where I
ask myself if I really want to. Once you cross a certain threshold of
airplane performance, the commitment, both in term of time and money starts
growing geometrically.

Mike
MU-2

In article .net,
Mike Rapoport wrote:
I don't fly around anymore just to look out the window. [...]
I would also save well over $100k/yr in expenses.

Sounds like you need a helicopter!

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

I am seriously thinking of getting rid of my current airplane in the next
few years for many of the reasons that have been brought up. Going to
Simcom is a minimium of four days and $15,000. Going in for maitenance is
two days just to drop off the airplane and pick it up again. There is no
way that I save SIX DAYS a year by owning an airplane. I don't fly around

I read an article that you can do Flightsafety sim training for
something like $4500 (or so) a year, and go as many times as you
want/need.

That's a twin simulator, and the writer of the article raved about the
quality of the sim and the training.

John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

That is true...for the course only. I have to get there which is a 4000+nm
round trip which takes 15+ flight hours at $600+/hr. Then there in another
$1-2,000 for hotels, maeals, rental car over the four days. We haven't
allocated anything for my time yet either.

Mike
MU-2

"john szpara" wrote in message
s.com...
I am seriously thinking of getting rid of my current airplane in the next
few years for many of the reasons that have been brought up. Going to
Simcom is a minimium of four days and $15,000. Going in for maitenance
is
two days just to drop off the airplane and pick it up again. There is no
way that I save SIX DAYS a year by owning an airplane. I don't fly
around

I read an article that you can do Flightsafety sim training for
something like $4500 (or so) a year, and go as many times as you
want/need.

That's a twin simulator, and the writer of the article raved about the
quality of the sim and the training.

John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:33:50 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

That is true...for the course only. I have to get there which is a 4000+nm
round trip which takes 15+ flight hours at $600+/hr. Then there in another
$1-2,000 for hotels, maeals, rental car over the four days. We haven't
allocated anything for my time yet either.

I thought they have more than one location, Long Beach and Wichita? If
they have one in Long Beach, that's only 1.5 hours by 300-400 series
cessna for me (and good practice, to boot).

Where are you located?

John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

"john szpara" wrote in message
s.com...
On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:33:50 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

That is true...for the course only. I have to get there which is a
4000+nm
round trip which takes 15+ flight hours at $600+/hr. Then there in
another
$1-2,000 for hotels, maeals, rental car over the four days. We haven't
allocated anything for my time yet either.

I thought they have more than one location, Long Beach and Wichita? If
they have one in Long Beach, that's only 1.5 hours by 300-400 series
cessna for me (and good practice, to boot).

Where are you located?


John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

Location is the heart of my problem. I am in the Northwest (Idaho) and the
only simulator is in the Southeast (Orlando) so it is about the worst
possible situation. If the sim was only 1.5hrs away from you then it is an
entirely different situation.

Mike
MU-2