Cirrus SR22 Purchase advice needed.

Holy crap! I guess I should have done some more research first...

I really, really, really like the performance spec's and looks of the
Currus.. My wife read your comment and now she's put off on the idea...
Gonna have to find something else now before she but the breaks on a new
plane purchase..

Dennis
N3868J
MyAirplane.com


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
I personally would not buy one of these airplanes until:

1) The airframe life limit of 4,030 hours is rescinded or at least
tripled;
and

2) They find out why these planes are falling out of the sky with such
regularity and do something about it. If this behavior keeps up, the FAA
is
likely to ground the entire fleet; and

3) Something is done about the atrocious quality control problems that
Cirrus has been having.

Yea.. its usually a good idea to see whats going on before seriously
considering a purchase.

There have been a spate of accidents involving the aircraft (percentage
wise, since there arent as many out there). Only a few have had
successful parachute deployments. People (as in newsgroup members) have
speculated that people with more money than ability are buying this
slick, high performance plane with little experience in something
similar. Its also speculated that pilots may be engaging in riskier
behaviors (using the presence of the BRS chute as a crutch) than they
otherwise would.

The Cirrus looks nice, and it sure is fast. However, I was kinda
wondering about you not being able to afford it without being in a large
partnership. I read into it that you would be in a position to cover
about 1/4th to 1/9th of the costs - I'm hoping you took into account
hangar, annuals, INSURANCE (Insurance on such a large group tends to get
the "Club/School rate", and with the relative accident rate as high as
it is, it might be pricey for inexerienced fliers).

If you want to try something that isnt TOO old and has "decent" numbers
look at the used Grumman tigers. 140 kts on 180 hp isnt half shabby, and
it can carry a decent load (2+bags+ over 4 hours of fuel). You might be
able to get that alone, or with ONE partner, which simplifies things a lot.

Good Luck..
Dave


Dennis wrote:

Holy crap! I guess I should have done some more research first...

I really, really, really like the performance spec's and looks of the
Currus.. My wife read your comment and now she's put off on the idea...
Gonna have to find something else now before she but the breaks on a new
plane purchase..

Dennis
N3868J
MyAirplane.com


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

I personally would not buy one of these airplanes until:

1) The airframe life limit of 4,030 hours is rescinded or at least

tripled;

and

2) They find out why these planes are falling out of the sky with such
regularity and do something about it. If this behavior keeps up, the FAA

is

likely to ground the entire fleet; and

3) Something is done about the atrocious quality control problems that
Cirrus has been having.

Dennis
the SR22 is fast compared to other planes with smaller engines, but compare it
to a plane with the same 310 HP engine, I dont think you will see much speed
difference.

what other planes out there have a 310 HP engine?

Dennis wrote:

Holy crap! I guess I should have done some more research first...

I really, really, really like the performance spec's and looks of the
Currus.. My wife read your comment and now she's put off on the idea...
Gonna have to find something else now before she but the breaks on a new
plane purchase..

Dennis
N3868J
MyAirplane.com

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
I personally would not buy one of these airplanes until:

1) The airframe life limit of 4,030 hours is rescinded or at least
tripled;
and

2) They find out why these planes are falling out of the sky with such
regularity and do something about it. If this behavior keeps up, the FAA
is
likely to ground the entire fleet; and

3) Something is done about the atrocious quality control problems that
Cirrus has been having.

Jeff wrote
the SR22 is fast compared to other planes with smaller engines, but compare it
to a plane with the same 310 HP engine, I dont think you will see much speed
difference.

what other planes out there have a 310 HP engine?

The 300 hp IO-550 is an option on at least the S-model Bonanza (and
probably many others). A friend of mine has one and I've flown it -
it's a great airplane, and it will comfortably cruise at 180 kts on
16-17 gph.

Michael

Michael wrote:

: The 300 hp IO-550 is an option on at least the S-model Bonanza (and
: probably many others). A friend of mine has one and I've flown it -
: it's a great airplane, and it will comfortably cruise at 180 kts on
: 16-17 gph.

: Michael

The 300HP IO-550, derated to 280HP, is in the Mooney Ovation2. The Ovation2
cruises in the 175 to 190 KT range on 15-16 GPH. You can get a very nice one
from the 2000 or 2001 model year for about $300K, if you look around.
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

Won't carry 4 people (with useful fuel) though. The new
Mooneys are wonderful planes but if you even occasionally
need to carry four people then they don't work out. Shame,
because the recent Bravo is a really lovely plane to
fly.

The SR22 will carry 4 people and a good fuel load. Just
be careful to avoid (a) clouds (unless IFR) (b) mountains
(c) the temptation to say, gee, wonder what happens if I
pull this big red handle (d) confusing it with the SR20,
which won't.

John

"Aaron Coolidge" wrote in message
...
Michael wrote:

: The 300 hp IO-550 is an option on at least the S-model Bonanza (and
: probably many others). A friend of mine has one and I've flown it -
: it's a great airplane, and it will comfortably cruise at 180 kts on
: 16-17 gph.

: Michael

The 300HP IO-550, derated to 280HP, is in the Mooney Ovation2. The
Ovation2
cruises in the 175 to 190 KT range on 15-16 GPH. You can get a very nice
one
from the 2000 or 2001 model year for about $300K, if you look around.
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

John Harper wrote:
: Won't carry 4 people (with useful fuel) though. The new
: Mooneys are wonderful planes but if you even occasionally
: need to carry four people then they don't work out. Shame,
: because the recent Bravo is a really lovely plane to
: fly.

I beg to differ, here. With 60 Gal of fuel, you have 700 Lbs of useful
load left. 60 gal gets you ~500 nm with a 1 hour reserve. (This is in the
Ovation2 that I borrowed a couple months ago. Your mileage may vary.)

If you fill it up to 90 gal of fuel, yes, it's a 2 place + luggage plane.
You have 5 hours of range (~850 nm), with a 1 hour reserve.

According to the Cirrus web site, useful load of an SR22 is 1150 lbs (about
the same as the Ovation2). Fuel capacity is 81 gal. 1150 - (81 * 6) = 664
lbs useful load with full fuel. This gives ~670 nm range with a 1 hour
reserve, assuming 17 GPH. (I don't know how Cirrus gets a 1000 nm range,
that would imply 14.5 GPH to dry tanks, which would imply about 60% power.)

I would say that the two airplanes are very comparable in terms of power,
speed, range, price, payload flexability, etc.
--
Aaron Coolidge

I was really thinking of the Bravo, which is a bit heavier
than the Ovation (obviously). "Guideline" useful load
for the Bravo seems to be around 950-1000 but I've
seen them on ASO etc in the 850-900 range by the
time they get TKS and fancy avionics. So with 60 gals
that gets you to around 500 lbs, not even 3 normal people with
some baggage.

John

"Aaron Coolidge" wrote in message
...
John Harper wrote:
: Won't carry 4 people (with useful fuel) though. The new
: Mooneys are wonderful planes but if you even occasionally
: need to carry four people then they don't work out. Shame,
: because the recent Bravo is a really lovely plane to
: fly.

I beg to differ, here. With 60 Gal of fuel, you have 700 Lbs of useful
load left. 60 gal gets you ~500 nm with a 1 hour reserve. (This is in the
Ovation2 that I borrowed a couple months ago. Your mileage may vary.)

If you fill it up to 90 gal of fuel, yes, it's a 2 place + luggage plane.
You have 5 hours of range (~850 nm), with a 1 hour reserve.

According to the Cirrus web site, useful load of an SR22 is 1150 lbs
(about
the same as the Ovation2). Fuel capacity is 81 gal. 1150 - (81 * 6) = 664
lbs useful load with full fuel. This gives ~670 nm range with a 1 hour
reserve, assuming 17 GPH. (I don't know how Cirrus gets a 1000 nm range,
that would imply 14.5 GPH to dry tanks, which would imply about 60%
power.)

I would say that the two airplanes are very comparable in terms of power,
speed, range, price, payload flexability, etc.
--
Aaron Coolidge

"Aaron Coolidge" wrote in message
...

I would say that the two airplanes are very comparable in terms of power,
speed, range, price, payload flexability, etc.

A huge difference is that the Mooney can be equipped to be known-ice
certified.

For anyone spending $300K on a serious IFR airplane, it is hard for me to
imagine how/why this is not a dealbreaker for Cirrus.

--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

I seem to remember the Bellanca Super Viking or may the turbo-Super came
with 300 ponys up front. Of course that uses pretty old, cloth covered
technology. Surely the Cirrus is much faster since it is new technology
(laughing with tongue in cheek)...

--
Jim Carter
Seen on a bumper sticker:
If you can read this, thank a teacher
If you can read this in English, thank a soldier.


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Dennis
the SR22 is fast compared to other planes with smaller engines, but
compare it
to a plane with the same 310 HP engine, I dont think you will see much
speed
difference.

what other planes out there have a 310 HP engine?

Dennis wrote:

Holy crap! I guess I should have done some more research first...

I really, really, really like the performance spec's and looks of the
Currus.. My wife read your comment and now she's put off on the idea...
Gonna have to find something else now before she but the breaks on a new
plane purchase..

Dennis
N3868J
MyAirplane.com

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
I personally would not buy one of these airplanes until:

1) The airframe life limit of 4,030 hours is rescinded or at least
tripled;
and

2) They find out why these planes are falling out of the sky with such
regularity and do something about it. If this behavior keeps up, the
FAA
is
likely to ground the entire fleet; and

3) Something is done about the atrocious quality control problems that
Cirrus has been having.