Cirrus SR22 Purchase advice needed.

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"C J Campbell" wrote
Therefore, the Cirrus cannot
recover from a spin when below 900' AGL. Many other aircraft can.

Name one aircraft that can cruise better than 170 kts, carry four
people, and can recover from a spin at 900 AGL.

The occupants of a Cirrus can hope to "survive" a spin from 900 AGL if
all goes well, and I honestly feel that that is a great thing, but not the
same as "recovering" from the spin. The airplane will be bent, probably off
the field (possibly in a schoolyard, or the middle of an interstate, or...)
and there may well be injuries, inside and outside the plane.

Vaughn



Michael

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"C J Campbell" wrote
Therefore, the Cirrus cannot
recover from a spin when below 900' AGL. Many other aircraft can.

Name one aircraft that can cruise better than 170 kts, carry four
people, and can recover from a spin at 900 AGL.

The occupants of a Cirrus can hope to "survive" a spin from 900 AGL

How so, if the Cirrus cannot recover from a spin and the parachute needs
more than 900 feet to deploy?

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
The occupants of a Cirrus can hope to "survive" a spin from 900 AGL

How so, if the Cirrus cannot recover from a spin and the parachute needs
more than 900 feet to deploy?

They have the same hope any occupant of any similar aircraft has of
surviving a spin from 900' AGL.

The parachute is an irrelevant red herring in this particular example.

Pete

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:58:11 -0700, C J Campbell wrote:


"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
The occupants of a Cirrus can hope to "survive" a spin from 900 AGL

How so, if the Cirrus cannot recover from a spin and the parachute needs
more than 900 feet to deploy?

Ya, that's the point I brought up in another subthread here, which went
unanswered. Maybe you can help.

If the deployment requires 920, does that mean after 920 you can safely
touchdown or does that mean it requires 920 + however long it takes to
slow your velocity to proper touchdown velocity? I ask because, I don't
think a chute opening 10 AGL is going to help much.

"Greg Copeland" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:58:11 -0700, C J Campbell wrote:


"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
The occupants of a Cirrus can hope to "survive" a spin from 900
AGL

How so, if the Cirrus cannot recover from a spin and the parachute needs
more than 900 feet to deploy?

Ya, that's the point I brought up in another subthread here, which went
unanswered. Maybe you can help.

If the deployment requires 920, does that mean after 920 you can safely
touchdown or does that mean it requires 920 + however long it takes to
slow your velocity to proper touchdown velocity? I ask because, I don't
think a chute opening 10 AGL is going to help much.

I believe the POH says that is the altitude necessary to safely touch down.
Whether it could be of any help before that I don't know. Even partially
opened the parachute is going to add some drag, but what happens is that the
parachute is pulled out by a rocket. Instead of opening instantly (which
would destroy the chute) a Teflon coated ring slides down the shroud lines
to allow the chute to open in a controlled manner. The airplane continues
moving forward during all this process. Once the chute is opened, the
airplane swings down under the canopy. So dropping that last few feet just
as the parachute opens the airplane's rate of descent might not be slowed at
all.

All of that assumes that the airplane is in normal forward flight. The
Cirrus spins in a flat attitude and it might not have all that much forward
motion. I guess the actual altitude needed would vary some depending on just
what the airplane is doing at the time the CAPS system is deployed.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"C J Campbell" wrote
Therefore, the Cirrus cannot
recover from a spin when below 900' AGL. Many other aircraft can.

Name one aircraft that can cruise better than 170 kts, carry four
people, and can recover from a spin at 900 AGL.

The occupants of a Cirrus can hope to "survive" a spin from 900 AGL

How so, if the Cirrus cannot recover from a spin and the parachute needs
more than 900 feet to deploy?

Not to mention reaction time which would add hundreds of feet to the
equation.

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:39:20 +0000, Dave Stadt wrote:


Not to mention reaction time which would add hundreds of feet to the
equation.

And that assumes you didn't waste time trying to recover in the first
place.

So now we come back to some of the points I made early on in this thread...

One of the problems is getting the pilot to absolutely ignore both human
nature and his training and immediately deploy the BRS with no attempt at
recovery from the spin.

Because if the pilot doesn't follow this procedure, no questions asked, the
delay resulting from going through a recovery process and the associated
thought processes may well put the pilot below the effective altitude of the
BRS.

You're working against both existing training and instincts, and
Cirrus-specific training that simply tells a pilot about the specific
characteristics of the airplane is useless. The training needs to absolutely
pound these differences into the pilot's head. And until that type of
training is done the Cirrus will continue to have a less-than-stellar
accident record...




"Greg Copeland" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:39:20 +0000, Dave Stadt wrote:


Not to mention reaction time which would add hundreds of feet to the
equation.

And that assumes you didn't waste time trying to recover in the first
place.

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...
So now we come back to some of the points I made early on in this
thread...

One of the problems is getting the pilot to absolutely ignore both human
nature and his training and immediately deploy the BRS with no attempt at
recovery from the spin. snip...And until that type of
training is done the Cirrus will continue to have a less-than-stellar
accident record...

And to come back to a point I made earlier in the thread, the result of
pulling the BRS *is* an accident. You will end up with bent metal and
possibly injuries every time you deploy the rescue system, and this reality
will be reflected in the Cirrus's insurance rates. Hopefully, the Cirrus
will some day have a low fatality rate, but I doubt if it will ever be known
for a low accident rate.

Vaughn

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...
So now we come back to some of the points I made early on in this
thread...

One of the problems is getting the pilot to absolutely ignore both human
nature and his training and immediately deploy the BRS with no attempt at
recovery from the spin.

Because if the pilot doesn't follow this procedure, no questions asked,
the
delay resulting from going through a recovery process and the associated
thought processes may well put the pilot below the effective altitude of
the
BRS.

You're working against both existing training and instincts, and
Cirrus-specific training that simply tells a pilot about the specific
characteristics of the airplane is useless. The training needs to
absolutely
pound these differences into the pilot's head. And until that type of
training is done the Cirrus will continue to have a less-than-stellar
accident record...

Can you imagine what a pilot that flies a Cirrus and other planes would do
in a crisis situation. Two totally different emergency procedures would vie
for top priority. Scary.