Legal Radio Installation

Gene Kearns wrote:
:Would the new AC 20-138a change that requirement now? See
:http://www.aea.net/aeatodayDetail.asp?ID=256
:

: My understanding is.... it would.... as long as the installation was
: not interfaced with another unit....

: Since GPS is no longer consider a "new technology" it's installation
: is equivalent to old tech, like a radio...

..... unless you are under the jurisdiction of at least the Richmond FSDO. I'm working
with my A&P/IA on installing a KLX-135 VFR GPS/COMM and the guy at the FSDO insists
that it's still a major alteration. Funny thing is that apparently, the act of
installing a placard saying "VFR use only" enters a whole new set of regulations
(think field approval along with major alteration) than utilizing the on-screen
message that reads "VFR use only." I don't understand it, but am rapidly concluding
that rational thought has nothing to do with it.

-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

[rant on]

What in the hell is WRONG with you people? How in the hell did a FSDO get
involved with a logbook installation?

I'll tell you how it happened. Either the owner or the IA was stupid enough to
ask the FSDO their opinion. After that, you are in the paperwork mill, and woe
betide you. You will never exit the other end unscathed.

Just SHUT YOUR MOUTH, do a LOGBOOK ENTRY, and both you and the Feds are going to
be mightily happy.

[rant off]

Jim





shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-.... unless you are under the jurisdiction of at least the Richmond FSDO. I'm
working
-with my A&P/IA on installing a KLX-135 VFR GPS/COMM and the guy at the FSDO
insists
-that it's still a major alteration.

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

On Fri, 21 May 2004 14:41:44 -0700, Jim Weir wrote:

[rant on]

What in the hell is WRONG with you people? How in the hell did a FSDO get
involved with a logbook installation?

I'll tell you how it happened. Either the owner or the IA was stupid enough to
ask the FSDO their opinion. After that, you are in the paperwork mill, and woe
betide you. You will never exit the other end unscathed.

Just SHUT YOUR MOUTH, do a LOGBOOK ENTRY, and both you and the Feds are going to
be mightily happy.

[rant off]

Jim


I agree Jim,

The way I read AC-20-138a is:
1. Read and understand AC-20-138a
2. Install / Test GPS per AC-20-138a
3. Logbook signoff per minor mod.
4. FSDO dosen't need to be involved.

*sigh*.... that would be my preferred course of action. Most of the IA's I've
talked with believe, "If in doubt, send it in and see what the FAA says about it." I
suspect it's instilled fear to CYA. Nobody ever said the rules make sense. I find it
tragically comic how arbitrary and capricious the rules are written and enforced.

-Cory

Jim Weir wrote:
: [rant on]

: What in the hell is WRONG with you people? How in the hell did a FSDO get
: involved with a logbook installation?

: I'll tell you how it happened. Either the owner or the IA was stupid enough to
: ask the FSDO their opinion. After that, you are in the paperwork mill, and woe
: betide you. You will never exit the other end unscathed.

: Just SHUT YOUR MOUTH, do a LOGBOOK ENTRY, and both you and the Feds are going to
: be mightily happy.

: [rant off]

: Jim




:
: shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

: -.... unless you are under the jurisdiction of at least the Richmond FSDO. I'm
: working
: -with my A&P/IA on installing a KLX-135 VFR GPS/COMM and the guy at the FSDO
: insists
: -that it's still a major alteration.

: Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
: VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
: http://www.rst-engr.com

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

Jim Weir wrote:
What in the hell is WRONG with you people? How in the hell did a FSDO get
involved with a logbook installation?
I'll tell you how it happened. Either the owner or the IA was stupid enough to
ask the FSDO their opinion. After that, you are in the paperwork mill, and woe
betide you. You will never exit the other end unscathed.
Just SHUT YOUR MOUTH, do a LOGBOOK ENTRY, and both you and the Feds are going to
be mightily happy.

Jim,

Obviously, if it was an IFR installation, he'd have to get a field
approval, because it's specifically required. However, from what I've
heard from a close friend, who owns an avionics shop, the FAA has
dictated that all FSDOs require a field approval for ALL GPS
installations, IFR or VFR. It's bull ****, but apparently, that's what
they want. Don't ask me why.

--- Jay (in Baltimore and/or Washington FSDO, depending on where I am)


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

Jay Masino wrote:

However, from what I've
heard from a close friend, who owns an avionics shop, the FAA has
dictated that all FSDOs require a field approval for ALL GPS
installations, IFR or VFR.

The Teterboro FSDO is the same way. Not sure about Allentown.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

However, from what I've
heard from a close friend, who owns an avionics shop, the FAA has
dictated that all FSDOs require a field approval for ALL GPS
installations, IFR or VFR. It's bull ****, but apparently, that's what
they want. Don't ask me why.

--- Jay (in Baltimore and/or Washington FSDO, depending on where I am)




WRONG.........

As chief inspector of a maintenance and avionics shop, I *TOLD* the Baltimore
FSDO's avionics inspector that all VFR GPS installations we did would be done
in accordance with AC20-138A and would be minor alterations.

Remember folks, A&P's/IA's/repair stations interpert the regulations and FSDO's
enforce the regulations. If a FSDO inspector takes you to task for something
you've read, interperted, and done, insist that he/she supply you with
REGULATORY INFORMATION that refutes your opinion (and keep an open mind).

I know that ALL the avionics shops under the Baltimore FSDO are on the same
page, because my director of maintenance and I, with the help of AEA, organized
several meetings with the avionics shop personnel and the FSDO to iron this
issue out.

On 23 May 2004 11:01:37 GMT, ospam (JohnN3TWN)
wrote:

However, from what I've
heard from a close friend, who owns an avionics shop, the FAA has
dictated that all FSDOs require a field approval for ALL GPS
installations, IFR or VFR. It's bull ****, but apparently, that's what
they want. Don't ask me why.

--- Jay (in Baltimore and/or Washington FSDO, depending on where I am)




WRONG.........

As chief inspector of a maintenance and avionics shop, I *TOLD* the Baltimore
FSDO's avionics inspector that all VFR GPS installations we did would be done
in accordance with AC20-138A and would be minor alterations.

Remember folks, A&P's/IA's/repair stations interpert the regulations and FSDO's
enforce the regulations. If a FSDO inspector takes you to task for something
you've read, interperted, and done, insist that he/she supply you with
REGULATORY INFORMATION that refutes your opinion (and keep an open mind).

I know that ALL the avionics shops under the Baltimore FSDO are on the same
page, because my director of maintenance and I, with the help of AEA, organized
several meetings with the avionics shop personnel and the FSDO to iron this
issue out.


Can IFR GPS installations be done as minor alterations also under
AC20-138a? If not, does 138a at least simplify the 337 process?

Can IFR GPS installations be done as minor alterations also under
AC20-138a? If not, does 138a at least simplify the 337 process?


No, and that is due primarily to the flight manual supplement that is required.
AC20-138A does make it pretty simple however.

So, an IFR GPS installation is done in two steps, first the VFR installation
(log book entry only) then, second, the 337 is filed with the flight manual
supplement and flight test information.