Belly Cleaning...?

I have been hearing the comments about Simple Green for years and that it
will etch or corrode Aluminum. I'm not saying they are true or not but I
have NEVER had anyone give definitive proof that it actually happens.
Everybody "read a report" or "has a friend who knows somebody". Who out
there has actually USED it on aluminum and seen (with their own eyes) the
damage? I DON'T use it on my Taylorcraft cowl (aluminum) because I DON'T
KNOW if it will cause damage, but I have used it on a Concur Porsche, the
fabric parts of the Taylorcraft (over steel tube), numerous steel parts and
LOTS of bare and painted aluminum that is NOT in my plane. I have NEVER
seen any corrosion or etching any worse than caused by Windex, soap and
water, plain water or general etching of the surfaces from exposure to the
elements (like lawn chairs). Has ANYONE ever seen these effects THEMSELVES
or does anyone have an OFFICIAL report of this etching and corrosion ever
happening?
Like I said, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and I can't prove it does, I
just know the stuff is GREAT for cleaning all kinds of surfaces, smells good
and is CONSTANTLY maligned by the aviation community WITH NO PROOF. If it's
bad, I'll use it in the house and ban it from my hangar, if it's not bad, I
want proof of that too. Who has it?
Hank J


"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
No,

couldn't agree more. The idea of washing an aircraft and being able to
keep fluid from creeping into seams and slits is preposterous.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)





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Hjarrett,

I'm not saying they are true or not but I
have NEVER had anyone give definitive proof that it actually happens.


Well, the guys at Aviation Consumer got this from the manufacturer (I
hope it's ok to quote this):

"Simple Green is a household cleaner that’s mildly alkaline. Its
manufacturer, Sunshine Makers, Inc., says “the aqueous-base and
alkalinity of Simple Green...can accelerate the corrosion process.
Therefore, contact times of...Simple Green...with unprotected or
unpainted aluminum surfaces should be kept as brief as the job will
allow...never for more than 10 minutes. Large cleaning jobs should be
conducted in smaller-area stages to achieve lower contact time.”

Sunshine Makers notes that Simple Green doesn’t have Mil-Spec approval
and Navy tests done in 1993 revealed that Simple Green failed sandwich
corrosion and long-term immersion-corrosion tests on aluminum. "

They conclude it wouldn't be their first choice and they would at least
only use it on painted surfaces and rinse very thoroughly.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

THAT is the kind of information we need! If this is quoted from the
manufacturer then I read it as saying it "can accelerate the corrosion "
(which is true of almost ALL household cleaners since most cleaners are
"mildly alkaline"). I wouldn't worry a lot about the Navy tests and the
lack of a Mil-Spec approval (I was an engineer for the Navy for 25+ years on
the A-6 program and DID these kinds of tests). The sandwich corrosion and
long-term immersion-corrosion tests would be failed by almost ANY common
cleaning solution. The sandwich test involves trapping the cleaner between
two sheets of bare aluminum and exposure to different saline environments.
Almost EVERYTHING fails at some level including clean, filtered de-ionized
water. I would say NO cleaner should be left on a surface for ten minutes
(or even be allowed to dry there at all). If nothing else it is a BEAR to
get the film off.
For myself, I plan to continue using Lemon Pledge (ducking for cover) on my
windshield and will use the Simple Green on my fabric surfaces against
really tough soil (like bug splats on leading edges and belly grime) with a
GOOD rinse afterwards. I'll continue avoiding the aluminum skins,
especially where two or more layers are riveted together, with ALL cleaners.
By the way, the Lemon Pledge does a GREAT job taking bugs off leading edges
and works REALLY well on my wood prop.
Hank (Awaiting the "incoming rounds" on Pledge- no "Mil-Spec approval" there
either) J


"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Hjarrett,

I'm not saying they are true or not but I
have NEVER had anyone give definitive proof that it actually happens.


Well, the guys at Aviation Consumer got this from the manufacturer (I
hope it's ok to quote this):

"Simple Green is a household cleaner that's mildly alkaline. Its
manufacturer, Sunshine Makers, Inc., says "the aqueous-base and
alkalinity of Simple Green...can accelerate the corrosion process.
Therefore, contact times of...Simple Green...with unprotected or
unpainted aluminum surfaces should be kept as brief as the job will
allow...never for more than 10 minutes. Large cleaning jobs should be
conducted in smaller-area stages to achieve lower contact time."

Sunshine Makers notes that Simple Green doesn't have Mil-Spec approval
and Navy tests done in 1993 revealed that Simple Green failed sandwich
corrosion and long-term immersion-corrosion tests on aluminum. "

They conclude it wouldn't be their first choice and they would at least
only use it on painted surfaces and rinse very thoroughly.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)





-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

"hjarrett" wrote in message
...
THAT is the kind of information we need! If this is quoted from the
manufacturer then I read it as saying it "can accelerate the corrosion "
(which is true of almost ALL household cleaners since most cleaners are
"mildly alkaline"). I wouldn't worry a lot about the Navy tests and the
lack of a Mil-Spec approval (I was an engineer for the Navy for 25+ years
on
the A-6 program and DID these kinds of tests). The sandwich corrosion and
long-term immersion-corrosion tests would be failed by almost ANY common
cleaning solution. The sandwich test involves trapping the cleaner
between
two sheets of bare aluminum and exposure to different saline environments.
Almost EVERYTHING fails at some level including clean, filtered de-ionized
water. I would say NO cleaner should be left on a surface for ten minutes
(or even be allowed to dry there at all). If nothing else it is a BEAR to
get the film off.
For myself, I plan to continue using Lemon Pledge (ducking for cover) on
my
windshield and will use the Simple Green on my fabric surfaces against
really tough soil (like bug splats on leading edges and belly grime) with
a
GOOD rinse afterwards. I'll continue avoiding the aluminum skins,
especially where two or more layers are riveted together, with ALL
cleaners.
By the way, the Lemon Pledge does a GREAT job taking bugs off leading
edges
and works REALLY well on my wood prop.
Hank (Awaiting the "incoming rounds" on Pledge- no "Mil-Spec approval"
there
either) J

Exactly! If used correctly simple green is no worse than any other cleaner
if "used correctly." 409 is much worse than Simple Green but has not been
involved in an aviation myth so it must be OK. Pollutants and soaps carried
into seams can be extremely corrosive. A plane stored inside properly
cleaned with Simple Green is much less likely to suffer from corrosion than
a plane stored outside in a seaside, industrial or high pollutant area.
Anybody that washes their plane by flooding it with water is asking for
trouble.

I think you will find most everybody agrees with your Lemon Pledge comments.

hjarrett wrote:

I have been hearing the comments about Simple Green for years and that it
will etch or corrode Aluminum. I'm not saying they are true or not but I
have NEVER had anyone give definitive proof that it actually happens.

The U.S. military has published such a statement. Somebody put a link to it here a
year or two back.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.