Thinking about buying a Mooney

It's like driving a sports car, tight fitting and very responsive, so
be ready for that. Check your mission profile before deciding on the
airplane of your dreams. Not every aircraft is for everyone or their
purposes.

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:36:00 GMT, David Megginson
wrote:

Robert Bates wrote:

Have you flown one? When I was looking for an airplane I flew a couple of
the C models because I had always heard how fast and efficient they were.
They seem unstable in roll- the first one I thought was just that particular
airplane but the second one was too.

For "unstable", substitute "responsive". A Cessna 172 or 182 has a lot of
roll damping because of hull effect, and a Cherokee has even more because of
dihedral -- that makes them very easy planes to fly, even in IMC (I love my
Warrior as an IMC platform), but it also makes them sluggish and
unresponsive for maneuvering, and in the case of dihedral, it adds drag as
well (for the 172/182, it's the struts that add the drag).

From what I understand (not having flown one), the Mooney has much less
roll damping than brands P and C, and it also uses rods rather than cables
for the ailerons so that they respond instantly to your yoke inputs (without
having to take up slack in cables first). You're also flying faster than a
PA-28, 172, or 182, so there's a higher dynamic pressure acting on the
ailerons for a plane about the same size and weight. It's not surprising
you'd find it very jumpy in the roll.


All the best,


David

Al Marzo wrote:

It's like driving a sports car, tight fitting and very responsive, so
be ready for that. Check your mission profile before deciding on the
airplane of your dreams. Not every aircraft is for everyone or their
purposes.

The M201 will remain one of the planes of my dreams because of the
combination of speed and fuel economy, but I don't believe that I'm good
enough for one yet (even if I could afford to upgrade) -- I still get some
slight heading drift in IMC in my Warrior from time to time, especially in
the first 15 minutes or so of a flight, and that would be much exaggerated
in a smooth, slick plane like a Mooney.


All the best,


David

I've got about 200 hrs in PA28s and PA32s as well as a few hundred in
various Cessna products. I have owned an M20C modified to near-M20J
config for about 3 years and fly it 250 hrs/yr primarily for business.
I have also flown M20J, K and S.

- All M20's have relatively trouble free gear. The manual ones in
particular need looking at once per year and to be greased. Other
than that, no more problem than a fixed gear bird. Overall an early
Mooney, well kept is a very low cost maintenance bird.
- (Potential) weak points are original fuel tanks, corrosion of the
steel structure. There are very few recurring AD's.
- The M20 has the same cabin width as your PA28 and Beech. The Beech
gives you a perception of room due to the volume behind the
windscreen, which the Mooney does not. It is definitely smaller than
your PA32.
- For the life of me, I can't figure out the comments about the Mooney
being light in roll. AvConsumer's guide: "soggy ailerons". The plane
does not roll well. This makes it ideal as an IFR platform (partial
panel is cake) but poor in a flat scissors.....! However, you only
need a little throw on the control yoke to get full aileron
deflection.
- The flight control linkages are hands down better than cables. Fly
an M20 for a couple hundred hours then take a PA32 up. For a second
you might have an irrational fear that the controls are disconnected.
- Also don't know where the "high fuel consumption" comment comes
from. O360, IO360, TSIO360, IO550, TIO540 will burn the same
regardless of airframe. If you compare to an O235 or O320, of course
it will burn more!
- To say it's a whole different game than a PA28. We Mooney pilots
would like you to believe that. It goes about 15-25 kt faster in
cruise on the same HP. Look at the cross sections and the wing
construction and you'll see why. Other than that, they're not that
different.
- With a Vso down around 49 kias, the early (lighter) M20's will take
off and land short. Using a little brake I can typically get the
first turnoff at my homefield at about 700 ft. Again, you can call it
pilot skills if you want.
- the type club comraderie is a big plus, especially WRT maintenance
tips (www.aviating.com) There are several Mooney events each month
(Georgia, southwest, upper midwest) to choose from, active mailing
list, stuck pilot's list, etc. etc.
- There is a wide socioeconomic spectrum of people who own Mooneys,
which is neat. From us poor souls with the early ones to lawyers,
doctors, CEOs and DINKs with the later Ovations and Bravos.
- Safety wise the M20 has a long glide range, a strong structure, and
a steel cage around the cabin. Do some searches in the NTSB.gov on
inflight breakups in the M20! Really nice to know when you're going
over the mountains and hit some bumpies.
- Low gear door comment is more applicable to M20J and later which
have an extra set of doors. Earlier M20 gear doors don't stick down
much more than a PA28.
- My M20C stalls like a PA28, that is I can honk back the yoke and use
the rudders to hold it level.
- Because you sit on the floor, the visibility over the panel could be
better. It's a poor a/c to teach your kids to fly for that reason.
- There is more myth than reality to the hard-to-land stories. Look
out for speed control on final (fast in ground effect will eat up lots
of runway) and keep that back pressure in! Start on a long runway and
you'll be fine. But...any plane has its issues. The PA32's is that
if you come in on-speed and pull power to idle you can setup some
(relatively) hellacious sink rate. Choose your poison.
.......beautiful airplane.

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
om...
- The flight control linkages are hands down better than cables. Fly
an M20 for a couple hundred hours then take a PA32 up. For a second
you might have an irrational fear that the controls are disconnected.

Is this related to cable vs. rods? My plane handles like a sports
car (several people have noticed the similarity between the plane
and my MR2...partly because with the T-bar roof you've got
glass all round, bit like my plane's canopy) but it has cables
connecting the sticks to the control surfaces.

Paul

Thanks Bob for the awesome write-up !! The plane is in for an annual
right now... I'll get to go up in her in a week or so... Thanks again !!
JK

Bob Miller wrote:
I've got about 200 hrs in PA28s and PA32s as well as a few hundred in
various Cessna products. I have owned an M20C modified to near-M20J
config for about 3 years and fly it 250 hrs/yr primarily for business.
I have also flown M20J, K and S.

- All M20's have relatively trouble free gear. The manual ones in
particular need looking at once per year and to be greased. Other
than that, no more problem than a fixed gear bird. Overall an early
Mooney, well kept is a very low cost maintenance bird.
- (Potential) weak points are original fuel tanks, corrosion of the
steel structure. There are very few recurring AD's.
- The M20 has the same cabin width as your PA28 and Beech. The Beech
gives you a perception of room due to the volume behind the
windscreen, which the Mooney does not. It is definitely smaller than
your PA32.
- For the life of me, I can't figure out the comments about the Mooney
being light in roll. AvConsumer's guide: "soggy ailerons". The plane
does not roll well. This makes it ideal as an IFR platform (partial
panel is cake) but poor in a flat scissors.....! However, you only
need a little throw on the control yoke to get full aileron
deflection.
- The flight control linkages are hands down better than cables. Fly
an M20 for a couple hundred hours then take a PA32 up. For a second
you might have an irrational fear that the controls are disconnected.
- Also don't know where the "high fuel consumption" comment comes
from. O360, IO360, TSIO360, IO550, TIO540 will burn the same
regardless of airframe. If you compare to an O235 or O320, of course
it will burn more!
- To say it's a whole different game than a PA28. We Mooney pilots
would like you to believe that. It goes about 15-25 kt faster in
cruise on the same HP. Look at the cross sections and the wing
construction and you'll see why. Other than that, they're not that
different.
- With a Vso down around 49 kias, the early (lighter) M20's will take
off and land short. Using a little brake I can typically get the
first turnoff at my homefield at about 700 ft. Again, you can call it
pilot skills if you want.
- the type club comraderie is a big plus, especially WRT maintenance
tips (www.aviating.com) There are several Mooney events each month
(Georgia, southwest, upper midwest) to choose from, active mailing
list, stuck pilot's list, etc. etc.
- There is a wide socioeconomic spectrum of people who own Mooneys,
which is neat. From us poor souls with the early ones to lawyers,
doctors, CEOs and DINKs with the later Ovations and Bravos.
- Safety wise the M20 has a long glide range, a strong structure, and
a steel cage around the cabin. Do some searches in the NTSB.gov on
inflight breakups in the M20! Really nice to know when you're going
over the mountains and hit some bumpies.
- Low gear door comment is more applicable to M20J and later which
have an extra set of doors. Earlier M20 gear doors don't stick down
much more than a PA28.
- My M20C stalls like a PA28, that is I can honk back the yoke and use
the rudders to hold it level.
- Because you sit on the floor, the visibility over the panel could be
better. It's a poor a/c to teach your kids to fly for that reason.
- There is more myth than reality to the hard-to-land stories. Look
out for speed control on final (fast in ground effect will eat up lots
of runway) and keep that back pressure in! Start on a long runway and
you'll be fine. But...any plane has its issues. The PA32's is that
if you come in on-speed and pull power to idle you can setup some
(relatively) hellacious sink rate. Choose your poison.
......beautiful airplane.