Flying under Class B

One inch under the floor is okay. The area under class B is often
constricted, so it can help to get flight following. Whether ATC has a right
to do it or not, controllers regularly assign altitudes to VFR traffic for
whatever reasons of their own.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

One inch under the floor is okay. The area under class B is often
constricted, so it can help to get flight following. Whether ATC has a
right
to do it or not, controllers regularly assign altitudes to VFR traffic for
whatever reasons of their own.


Yup, and receiving an altitude assignment from a controller that hasn't the
authority to issue it is an indication that you're not working with a sharp
troop.

In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

One inch under the floor is okay. The area under class B is often
constricted, so it can help to get flight following. Whether ATC has a
right
to do it or not, controllers regularly assign altitudes to VFR traffic for
whatever reasons of their own.


Yup, and receiving an altitude assignment from a controller that hasn't the
authority to issue it is an indication that you're not working with a sharp
troop.

This is one of my pet peeves about the folks at NY Tracon. They've got
this strange habit of telling VFR flights inbound to HPN to "descend to
pattern altitude". It used to only happen to me once in a while, but
lately it seems to have become SOP.

It's more than just a polite suggestion, too. I've had controllers tell
me that I'm not descending fast enough, and that they "need me" to
descend. I once said "unable" when a controller tried to do this to me
15 miles out at night and ended up with an invitation to call them when
I got on the ground. Said phone call resulted in a verbal reaming out
by the supervisor for refusing to follow instructions.

A written complaint from me to the tracon resulted in a letter informing
me that I must obey all controller's instructions.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

Yup, and receiving an altitude assignment from a controller that hasn't
the
authority to issue it is an indication that you're not working with a
sharp
troop.


This is one of my pet peeves about the folks at NY Tracon. They've got
this strange habit of telling VFR flights inbound to HPN to "descend to
pattern altitude". It used to only happen to me once in a while, but
lately it seems to have become SOP.

It's more than just a polite suggestion, too. I've had controllers tell
me that I'm not descending fast enough, and that they "need me" to
descend.


Again, a sign that you're not working with a sharp troop.



I once said "unable" when a controller tried to do this to me
15 miles out at night and ended up with an invitation to call them when
I got on the ground. Said phone call resulted in a verbal reaming out
by the supervisor for refusing to follow instructions.


Had it been me it would have been the supervisor that would have received
the verbal reaming out.



A written complaint from me to the tracon resulted in a letter informing
me that I must obey all controller's instructions.


But not supported by any documentation, of course.

So long as they are not directing you to do something unsafe, or hard on the
equipment or passengers, or otherwise an extreme hassle - why not just go
along?

Lets say he is not a sharp troop. Why make his job harder. While you are
giving the guy fits, someone else is trying to get a clearance or advice.
Keep it up, and they will just expand the class B, because they NEED to
control that space.

If we go along, we can delay or eliminate the need to expand class B areas.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

Yup, and receiving an altitude assignment from a controller that hasn't
the
authority to issue it is an indication that you're not working with a
sharp
troop.


This is one of my pet peeves about the folks at NY Tracon. They've got
this strange habit of telling VFR flights inbound to HPN to "descend to
pattern altitude". It used to only happen to me once in a while, but
lately it seems to have become SOP.

It's more than just a polite suggestion, too. I've had controllers tell
me that I'm not descending fast enough, and that they "need me" to
descend.


Again, a sign that you're not working with a sharp troop.



I once said "unable" when a controller tried to do this to me
15 miles out at night and ended up with an invitation to call them when
I got on the ground. Said phone call resulted in a verbal reaming out
by the supervisor for refusing to follow instructions.


Had it been me it would have been the supervisor that would have received
the verbal reaming out.



A written complaint from me to the tracon resulted in a letter informing
me that I must obey all controller's instructions.


But not supported by any documentation, of course.

"Dude" wrote in message
...

So long as they are not directing you to do something unsafe, or hard on
the
equipment or passengers, or otherwise an extreme hassle - why not just go
along?


For what purpose?



Lets say he is not a sharp troop. Why make his job harder.


But it doesn't make his job harder.



While you are
giving the guy fits, someone else is trying to get a clearance or advice.


It's not me that's giving him fits, it's his misunderstang of procedures
that's giving him fits.



Keep it up, and they will just expand the class B, because they NEED to
control that space.


Why do they NEED to control it?



If we go along, we can delay or eliminate the need to expand class B
areas.


That's got nothing to do with it.

So long as they are not directing you to do something unsafe, or hard on
the
equipment or passengers, or otherwise an extreme hassle - why not just
go
along?


For what purpose?


Safety! What does he know that you do not?



Lets say he is not a sharp troop. Why make his job harder.


But it doesn't make his job harder.


Every extra statement he makes takes time. Also, you may now be too close
to another flight path, making him divert it. What are you thinking? How
about the added stress from your denial adding to the rest of his stress. I
find it strange that you really don't care about being nice to controllers.



While you are
giving the guy fits, someone else is trying to get a clearance or
advice.


It's not me that's giving him fits, it's his misunderstang of procedures
that's giving him fits.


No, its you. You are at fault. You are being hard headed and stubborn for
no reason. You don't know what he is up against. You don't even know what
you are up against. You don't have to move out of the way to let a drunk
stumble by you in a crowded bar either, but its your dry cleaning bill.



Keep it up, and they will just expand the class B, because they NEED to
control that space.


Why do they NEED to control it?


Because they are control freaks, and have ever expanding volumes of traffic.
This is how government agencies work. They want control, they need
control, they demand control, and then AOPA has to fight them to keep them
from grabbing it.

The only reason the Class B area around you is not bigger, is that they
cannot show they need it. Otherwise, they would expand it. Every time a
flight has to get vectored to avoid VFR traffic, is another straw on the
proverbial camel's back.




If we go along, we can delay or eliminate the need to expand class B
areas.


That's got nothing to do with it.


See above, it has everything to do with it. Why do you think we have Class B
areas to start with? ATC wants your airspace, don't give them an excuse to
take it!

Roy Smith ) wrote:

It's more than just a polite suggestion, too. I've had controllers tell
me that I'm not descending fast enough, and that they "need me" to
descend. I once said "unable" when a controller tried to do this to me
15 miles out at night and ended up with an invitation to call them when
I got on the ground. Said phone call resulted in a verbal reaming out
by the supervisor for refusing to follow instructions.

A written complaint from me to the tracon resulted in a letter informing
me that I must obey all controller's instructions.

Shoulda had the supervisor tell you what section of the Federal Aviation
Regulation supports his assertion that ATC control VFR aircraft outside
of B or C airspace.

--
Peter

Peter R. wrote:
Roy Smith ) wrote:

It's more than just a polite suggestion, too. I've had controllers tell
me that I'm not descending fast enough, and that they "need me" to
descend. I once said "unable" when a controller tried to do this to me
15 miles out at night and ended up with an invitation to call them when
I got on the ground. Said phone call resulted in a verbal reaming out
by the supervisor for refusing to follow instructions.

A written complaint from me to the tracon resulted in a letter informing
me that I must obey all controller's instructions.

Shoulda had the supervisor tell you what section of the Federal Aviation
Regulation supports his assertion that ATC control VFR aircraft outside
of B or C airspace.

That was in the letter I wrote to complain. The (written) response
was "you have to follow all instructions the controller gives you".

Roy Smith ) wrote:

That was in the letter I wrote to complain. The (written) response
was "you have to follow all instructions the controller gives you".

To which you should have returned: "What regulation states that a VFR
aircraft in class E (which I presume you were in) airspace is required
to follow all instructions given by the controller?

--
Peter