Flying under Class B

"Dude" wrote in message
...

So long as they are not directing you to do something unsafe, or hard on
the
equipment or passengers, or otherwise an extreme hassle - why not just go
along?


For what purpose?



Lets say he is not a sharp troop. Why make his job harder.


But it doesn't make his job harder.



While you are
giving the guy fits, someone else is trying to get a clearance or advice.


It's not me that's giving him fits, it's his misunderstang of procedures
that's giving him fits.



Keep it up, and they will just expand the class B, because they NEED to
control that space.


Why do they NEED to control it?



If we go along, we can delay or eliminate the need to expand class B
areas.


That's got nothing to do with it.

So long as they are not directing you to do something unsafe, or hard on
the
equipment or passengers, or otherwise an extreme hassle - why not just
go
along?


For what purpose?


Safety! What does he know that you do not?



Lets say he is not a sharp troop. Why make his job harder.


But it doesn't make his job harder.


Every extra statement he makes takes time. Also, you may now be too close
to another flight path, making him divert it. What are you thinking? How
about the added stress from your denial adding to the rest of his stress. I
find it strange that you really don't care about being nice to controllers.



While you are
giving the guy fits, someone else is trying to get a clearance or
advice.


It's not me that's giving him fits, it's his misunderstang of procedures
that's giving him fits.


No, its you. You are at fault. You are being hard headed and stubborn for
no reason. You don't know what he is up against. You don't even know what
you are up against. You don't have to move out of the way to let a drunk
stumble by you in a crowded bar either, but its your dry cleaning bill.



Keep it up, and they will just expand the class B, because they NEED to
control that space.


Why do they NEED to control it?


Because they are control freaks, and have ever expanding volumes of traffic.
This is how government agencies work. They want control, they need
control, they demand control, and then AOPA has to fight them to keep them
from grabbing it.

The only reason the Class B area around you is not bigger, is that they
cannot show they need it. Otherwise, they would expand it. Every time a
flight has to get vectored to avoid VFR traffic, is another straw on the
proverbial camel's back.




If we go along, we can delay or eliminate the need to expand class B
areas.


That's got nothing to do with it.


See above, it has everything to do with it. Why do you think we have Class B
areas to start with? ATC wants your airspace, don't give them an excuse to
take it!

"Dude" wrote in message
...

So long as they are not directing you to do something unsafe, or hard
on the equipment or passengers, or otherwise an extreme hassle - why
not just go along?


For what purpose?


Safety!


A rather broad subject. Do you think you could expand on that a bit?



What does he know that you do not?


He knows where the other radar targets are.



Lets say he is not a sharp troop. Why make his job harder.


But it doesn't make his job harder.


Every extra statement he makes takes time.


The only "extra statement" here is the one where he directed a VFR aircraft
operating in Class E airspace to descend. He was wrong to make that
statement.



Also, you may now be too close to another flight path, making him
divert it. What are you thinking?


What are you thinking? How could my presence require him to divert another
aircraft? I'm operating VFR in Class E airspace, ATC does not provide
VFR/IFR or VFR/VFR separation in Class E airspace.



How about the added stress from your denial adding to the rest of
his stress. I find it strange that you really don't care about being nice
to controllers.


I'm very nice to controllers, and to pilots too. If the controller finds
the issuance of traffic advisories to be stressful he should find another
occupation.



While you are giving the guy fits, someone else is trying to get
a clearance or advice.


It's not me that's giving him fits, it's his misunderstang of procedures
that's giving him fits.


No, its you. You are at fault.


How so? What am I at fault for?



You are being hard headed and stubborn for no reason.


I don't think you understand the situation here. The service the controller
is providing in this case is radar traffic advosories. Nothing more. This
is not a separation issue.



You don't know what he is up against.


What is he up against?



You don't even know what you are up against.


What am I up against?



You don't have to move out of the way to let a drunk
stumble by you in a crowded bar either, but its your dry cleaning bill.


Right, no third party is involved. Just as responsibility for separation
rests with me and the other aircraft, not the controller.





Keep it up, and they will just expand the class B, because they NEED to
control that space.


Why do they NEED to control it?


Because they are control freaks, and have ever expanding volumes of
traffic. This is how government agencies work. They want control,
they need control, they demand control, and then AOPA has to fight
them to keep them from grabbing it.

The only reason the Class B area around you is not bigger, is that they
cannot show they need it. Otherwise, they would expand it. Every time a
flight has to get vectored to avoid VFR traffic, is another straw on the
proverbial camel's back.


But no flight NEEDS to be vectored to avoid VFR traffic in Class E airspace.



If we go along, we can delay or eliminate the need to expand class B
areas.


That's got nothing to do with it.


See above, it has everything to do with it. Why do you think we have
Class B areas to start with? ATC wants your airspace, don't give them
an excuse to take it!


We're not talking about Class B airspace, we're talking about Class E
airspace.