FAA violations and accidents

"Dude" wrote in message ...

These events are held regularly, and allow you to bring your plane and log
books to the field for an audit and inspection with no risk of being fined
or cited. Sort of like an amnesty program. And, it's free.

Sounds great, but... The risk is not being fined or cited, the risk
is that you'll never be able to fly your plane home after the audit.
It's quite possible that a nitpicky inspector could ground your
airplane because of ancient paperwork issues (not safety related ones,
either). As far as I'm concerned, this program is like taking your
last 5 years of financial data to the IRS and asking them if they can
find a violation. Do you really want to open that can of worms?

When they say, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help",
you're not supposed to take 'em seriously :-)

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Well, I have never heard of anyone being held on the field at a Pace event.
If that were to happen, then we should all hear about it, and find out who
got fired.

OTOH, the FAA is the FAA. I suspect that your example is misleading,
because that type of plane is exactly what they want to fix. If a plane was
seriously dangerous due to physical imperfection, rather than log problems,
I suppose someone might get strongly pressured to not fly it out. But it
would have to be an obvious hazard that no reasonable pilot would want to
ignore.

If your example were real, the program would end up being a joke.



"John Galban" wrote in message
om...
"Dude" wrote in message
...

These events are held regularly, and allow you to bring your plane and
log
books to the field for an audit and inspection with no risk of being
fined
or cited. Sort of like an amnesty program. And, it's free.

Sounds great, but... The risk is not being fined or cited, the risk
is that you'll never be able to fly your plane home after the audit.
It's quite possible that a nitpicky inspector could ground your
airplane because of ancient paperwork issues (not safety related ones,
either). As far as I'm concerned, this program is like taking your
last 5 years of financial data to the IRS and asking them if they can
find a violation. Do you really want to open that can of worms?

When they say, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help",
you're not supposed to take 'em seriously :-)

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"Dude" wrote in message
...
Well, I have never heard of anyone being held on the field at a Pace
event.
If that were to happen, then we should all hear about it, and find out who
got fired.

OTOH, the FAA is the FAA. I suspect that your example is misleading,
because that type of plane is exactly what they want to fix. If a plane
was
seriously dangerous due to physical imperfection, rather than log
problems,
I suppose someone might get strongly pressured to not fly it out. But it
would have to be an obvious hazard that no reasonable pilot would want to
ignore.

There are very few FAA people that can tell an airworthy airframe from one
that is unairworthy. They can look over paperwork but beyond that don't
expect much..

Dave Stadt wrote:
: There are very few FAA people that can tell an airworthy airframe from one
: that is unairworthy. They can look over paperwork but beyond that don't
: expect much..

... and if you look hard enough at *ANY* aircraft, you will conclude that it
unairworthy. One piece of non MIL-spec'd heat shrink tubing or wire end. One
lightbulb gotten at AutoZone rather than a PMA'd one. That one screw on the spinner
that wasn't torqued with a calibrated torque wrench. The list is long, but in true
leagaleaze, anything not done according to approved data is unacceptable.

I've heard horror stories about going to the FSDO for a CFI-checkride and
having the FAA droids comb over your aircraft. Alegedly one guy came in with a
plane that had a pin-head sized air bubble in the wet compass that couldn't be seen
without putting your head down on the floor and looking up at it. *POOF* unairworthy
(no air is acceptable). If you're lucky they'll let you ferry it home.

Again, "We're with the FAA and we're here to help..."

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Sure, we have all heard those stories, and I have been a victim of a similar
case of the letter over any sense whatsoever type of judgement.

However, NOT AT A PACE EVENT.

And, that is what's important. The FAA gives you can opportunity to get
their opinion with no penalty, so you can pencil whip or fix problems on
your own time without being grounded.



wrote in message
...
Dave Stadt wrote:
: There are very few FAA people that can tell an airworthy airframe from
one
: that is unairworthy. They can look over paperwork but beyond that don't
: expect much..

... and if you look hard enough at *ANY* aircraft, you will conclude that
it
unairworthy. One piece of non MIL-spec'd heat shrink tubing or wire end.
One
lightbulb gotten at AutoZone rather than a PMA'd one. That one screw on
the spinner
that wasn't torqued with a calibrated torque wrench. The list is long,
but in true
leagaleaze, anything not done according to approved data is unacceptable.

I've heard horror stories about going to the FSDO for a CFI-checkride and
having the FAA droids comb over your aircraft. Alegedly one guy came in
with a
plane that had a pin-head sized air bubble in the wet compass that
couldn't be seen
without putting your head down on the floor and looking up at it. *POOF*
unairworthy
(no air is acceptable). If you're lucky they'll let you ferry it home.

Again, "We're with the FAA and we're here to help..."

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Dude wrote:

If a plane was
seriously dangerous due to physical imperfection, rather than log problems,
I suppose someone might get strongly pressured to not fly it out.

Nobody at the Teterboro FSDO is capable of determining this -- that's what your local
IA is supposed to do every year. PACE events are intended to uncover problems with
the paperwork; nothing more.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

At our last PACE event, the FAA examiners were actually inspecting the
planes as well..

Whether it did any good or not... ???


"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Dude wrote:

If a plane was
seriously dangerous due to physical imperfection, rather than log
problems,
I suppose someone might get strongly pressured to not fly it out.

Nobody at the Teterboro FSDO is capable of determining this -- that's what
your local
IA is supposed to do every year. PACE events are intended to uncover
problems with
the paperwork; nothing more.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to
have
been looking for it.

"Dude" wrote in message ...
Well, I have never heard of anyone being held on the field at a Pace event.
If that were to happen, then we should all hear about it, and find out who
got fired.

Fired? That's a good one!

OTOH, the FAA is the FAA. I suspect that your example is misleading,
because that type of plane is exactly what they want to fix. If a plane was
seriously dangerous due to physical imperfection, rather than log problems,
I suppose someone might get strongly pressured to not fly it out. But it
would have to be an obvious hazard that no reasonable pilot would want to
ignore.

As far as the FAA is concerned, paperwork is what makes a plane fly.
The interpretation of the regs appears to be at the whim of the
inspector and varies from FSDO to FSDO (and even between inspectors in
the same FSDO). Let's suppose an inspector found something, say an
STC, that wasn't properly logged (in his opinion). According to the
regs, your airplane would not be airworthy in paperwork sense. Are
we supposed to trust that the FAA is going to look the other way as we
climb into our unairworthy (on paper) airplane and fly it home to the
shop? Most of the FSDO inspectors that I know would not put their
butts on the line like that. More likely, you'd have to jump through
the hoops required for a ferry permit.

I know dozens of airplane and FBO owners and no one (so far) has
ever seriously considered participating in this program. It has
nothing to do with whether an airplane is actually airworthy and
exposes you to the regulatory whims of your local FSDO. The best bet
for a good assesment of actual airworthiness is still an experienced
IA.

If your example were real, the program would end up being a joke.

I didn't actually give an example in my first post, just pointed out
possible pitfalls. Most owners I know think that the program is a
joke and wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. As I said in my first
post, it requires you to believe that the FAA is "here to help".

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"Dude" wrote
Well, I have never heard of anyone being held on the field at a Pace event.
If that were to happen, then we should all hear about it, and find out who
got fired.

I've heard about it. Nobody got fired.

If your example were real, the program would end up being a joke.

And so it is.

Michael

Well, tell us the details. Inquiring mids want to know.


"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"Dude" wrote
Well, I have never heard of anyone being held on the field at a Pace
event.
If that were to happen, then we should all hear about it, and find out
who
got fired.

I've heard about it. Nobody got fired.

If your example were real, the program would end up being a joke.

And so it is.

Michael