Looking for non-biased resource

"nobody" wrote in message
om...
Not looking for cheaper. We are hurting on point to point travel,
scheduling, long security delays, last minute changes, no advance
purchase.
In our favor, much of our expense is billed directly back to the clients
up
to a pre-determined amount.


Good luck getting client reimbursement if you're flying private. I'd be a
little concerned about how it appears to them- clients like to feel like
they're getting MIT Ph.Ds at the same price they pay for Mexican gardeners.
When the team shows up in a private jet it screams "money coming out the
wazoo" which makes me wonder whether you're charging me way too much for the
software. Even getting them to cover the equivalent of an airline ticket
might be touchy. Last IT consulting shop I was at, the clients screamed
bloody murder about covering any ticket over $300, even cross-country. It
may be worth it ultimately, but if you're billing $100k of travel to clients
now, that money might be out the door if you do get a plane.

-cwk.

I know what you're talking about. I was a road warrior for 7 years doing
SAP consulting. We're not the first contractor they've had in house. They
know what they're paying for airfare already. Typically, they pay
refundable Y fare rates. It's spelled out in the P.O. what we will expense
to the client and what the cap is.

I wonder how your clients knew how you flew. Most of my teams have enough
miles that they are traveling platinum elite status and almost without
exception, fly first class for the price of refundable coach. I'm not aware
that the clients have any idea that my teams are traveling first class. The
clients certainly haven't complained. If we went to private jet, I would
expect the same level of discretion from my team.

Ed

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
nk.net...

"nobody" wrote in message
om...
Not looking for cheaper. We are hurting on point to point travel,
scheduling, long security delays, last minute changes, no advance
purchase.
In our favor, much of our expense is billed directly back to the clients
up
to a pre-determined amount.


Good luck getting client reimbursement if you're flying private. I'd be a
little concerned about how it appears to them- clients like to feel like
they're getting MIT Ph.Ds at the same price they pay for Mexican
gardeners.
When the team shows up in a private jet it screams "money coming out the
wazoo" which makes me wonder whether you're charging me way too much for
the
software. Even getting them to cover the equivalent of an airline ticket
might be touchy. Last IT consulting shop I was at, the clients screamed
bloody murder about covering any ticket over $300, even cross-country. It
may be worth it ultimately, but if you're billing $100k of travel to
clients
now, that money might be out the door if you do get a plane.

-cwk.

nobody wrote:


I wonder how your clients knew how you flew. Most of my teams have enough
miles that they are traveling platinum elite status and almost without
exception, fly first class for the price of refundable coach. I'm not aware
that the clients have any idea that my teams are traveling first class. The
clients certainly haven't complained. If we went to private jet, I would
expect the same level of discretion from my team.


When your teams are flying first class on coach fares, they are
providing coach ticket receipts for reimbursement. I assume the client
audits them or wants to see them.

what receipts will they present when they fly on a corporate jet?

No, not really. The expenses come in as a line item on the invoice for the
installation and training, not as expense items to each member of the team.
Our admin dept. audits the expense reports from the teams. We charge
1,500.00 per day per person plus reasonable expenses.


"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
nobody wrote:


I wonder how your clients knew how you flew. Most of my teams have
enough
miles that they are traveling platinum elite status and almost without
exception, fly first class for the price of refundable coach. I'm not
aware
that the clients have any idea that my teams are traveling first class.
The
clients certainly haven't complained. If we went to private jet, I
would
expect the same level of discretion from my team.


When your teams are flying first class on coach fares, they are
providing coach ticket receipts for reimbursement. I assume the client
audits them or wants to see them.

what receipts will they present when they fly on a corporate jet?

So the client never has an opportunity to audit the expenses you charge
to them? Talk about trust.

nobody wrote:

No, not really. The expenses come in as a line item on the invoice for the
installation and training, not as expense items to each member of the team.
Our admin dept. audits the expense reports from the teams. We charge
1,500.00 per day per person plus reasonable expenses.


"xyzzy" wrote in message
...

nobody wrote:


I wonder how your clients knew how you flew. Most of my teams have

enough

miles that they are traveling platinum elite status and almost without
exception, fly first class for the price of refundable coach. I'm not

aware

that the clients have any idea that my teams are traveling first class.

The

clients certainly haven't complained. If we went to private jet, I

would

expect the same level of discretion from my team.


When your teams are flying first class on coach fares, they are
providing coach ticket receipts for reimbursement. I assume the client
audits them or wants to see them.

what receipts will they present when they fly on a corporate jet?

xyzzy wrote:

So the client never has an opportunity to audit the expenses you charge
to them? Talk about trust.

Trust has nothing to do with it. The expenses are part of the cost of the
product. If the company doesn't want to pay it, they don't buy the software.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


xyzzy wrote:

So the client never has an opportunity to audit the expenses you charge
to them? Talk about trust.


Trust has nothing to do with it. The expenses are part of the cost of the
product. If the company doesn't want to pay it, they don't buy the software.

earlier in the thread he wrote:

Typically, they pay
refundable Y fare rates. It's spelled out in the P.O. what we will
expense
to the client and what the cap is.

That clearly implies that the airfare is not built into the cost of the
product, but is billed to the client as a separate line item.

I'm not questioning whether they should buy a jet, but I am questioning
his assertion that as long as his consultants use discretion, the client
won't know they flew in on a private jet.

Audits and paper trails aside, when I have gone on customer engagements
I am always asked about my flight arrangements. Usually it's just the
customers' guys being friendly, looking to swap travel stories with road
warriors. Often I'm asked because it affects when meetings are
scheduled too. Unless they start telling lies in response to those
harmless queries, a practice that is hard to maintain, there is simply
no way that "discretion" will keep the clients from knowing they flew in
on a corproate jet. Especially since he's talking about using it to
small towns without good airline service.

"nobody" wrote in message
. com...
Typically, they pay refundable Y fare rates.

Yeah, you SAP guys had it pretty damn good. Since you sold the system to the
CEO you could usually get a fair deal when it came to travel but we were a
lot farther down the food chain, and often had to eat travel costs
ourselves. Needless to say, that company is no longer in business...

I wonder how your clients knew how you flew. Most of my teams have enough
miles that they are traveling platinum elite status and almost without
exception, fly first class for the price of refundable coach. I'm not
aware
that the clients have any idea that my teams are traveling first class.

If the ticket cost was reasonable they wouldn't ask any questions. The main
thing they would grumble about was when they booked an appointment two
months out and we bought the ticket a week before, thus pushing us into the
high-fare bucket. The sales guys bitched about that too but then you should
have heard them moan when we had to throw a restricted ticket away because
they'd sell the same guy to a client in some other city the day after the
first client's job finished, and the cheap ticket we bought two months
earlier couldn't be changed. Idiots.

-cwk.

The sales guys bitched about that too but then you should
have heard them moan when we had to throw a restricted ticket away because
they'd sell the same guy to a client in some other city the day after the
first client's job finished, and the cheap ticket we bought two months
earlier couldn't be changed. Idiots.

-cwk.



So, the customer paid for the tickets, so your company was covered.

Your company got more revenue because the salesman sold the service and the
resource which was going to be sitting back at the office is now being put
to use in the field thus ensuring continued employment for said resource and
others.

Your salesman moaned because he had a feeling he would end up getting a
complaint from the customer on the cost of the travel ticket which would
mean more work for him (in case you were unaware, sales people work on
relationships and customer happiness. I suspect the installers moaned when
they learned that they would have to install in less than optimal
conditions? I know I did.)

From these circumstances you draw the conclusion that the salesmen were
idiots?

Perhaps you left out a premise or two?

"Dude" wrote in message
...

Your salesman moaned because he had a feeling he would end up getting a
complaint from the customer on the cost of the travel ticket which would
mean more work for him

The problem is that the salesman would promise things he couldn't
necessarily deliver. For instance, he'd promise that the ticket would cost
no more than $300. This would work if we booked the ticket that very minute,
but experience showed that booking tickets more than two weeks in advance
(unless we bought Y fares which defeats the purpose) was dangerous due to
scheduling. And if we had to throw tickets away, he (head salesguy was also
the GM) would blame me (head of consulting) for that too. Heads or tails, I
lost.

From these circumstances you draw the conclusion that the salesmen were
idiots?

Regularly promising things you can't deliver at a given price (they did it
on every part of the deal, not just the travel) fits my definition pretty
well.

-cwk.