Looking for non-biased resource

No, not really. The expenses come in as a line item on the invoice for the
installation and training, not as expense items to each member of the team.
Our admin dept. audits the expense reports from the teams. We charge
1,500.00 per day per person plus reasonable expenses.


"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
nobody wrote:


I wonder how your clients knew how you flew. Most of my teams have
enough
miles that they are traveling platinum elite status and almost without
exception, fly first class for the price of refundable coach. I'm not
aware
that the clients have any idea that my teams are traveling first class.
The
clients certainly haven't complained. If we went to private jet, I
would
expect the same level of discretion from my team.


When your teams are flying first class on coach fares, they are
providing coach ticket receipts for reimbursement. I assume the client
audits them or wants to see them.

what receipts will they present when they fly on a corporate jet?

So the client never has an opportunity to audit the expenses you charge
to them? Talk about trust.

nobody wrote:

No, not really. The expenses come in as a line item on the invoice for the
installation and training, not as expense items to each member of the team.
Our admin dept. audits the expense reports from the teams. We charge
1,500.00 per day per person plus reasonable expenses.


"xyzzy" wrote in message
...

nobody wrote:


I wonder how your clients knew how you flew. Most of my teams have

enough

miles that they are traveling platinum elite status and almost without
exception, fly first class for the price of refundable coach. I'm not

aware

that the clients have any idea that my teams are traveling first class.

The

clients certainly haven't complained. If we went to private jet, I

would

expect the same level of discretion from my team.


When your teams are flying first class on coach fares, they are
providing coach ticket receipts for reimbursement. I assume the client
audits them or wants to see them.

what receipts will they present when they fly on a corporate jet?

xyzzy wrote:

So the client never has an opportunity to audit the expenses you charge
to them? Talk about trust.

Trust has nothing to do with it. The expenses are part of the cost of the
product. If the company doesn't want to pay it, they don't buy the software.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


xyzzy wrote:

So the client never has an opportunity to audit the expenses you charge
to them? Talk about trust.


Trust has nothing to do with it. The expenses are part of the cost of the
product. If the company doesn't want to pay it, they don't buy the software.

earlier in the thread he wrote:

Typically, they pay
refundable Y fare rates. It's spelled out in the P.O. what we will
expense
to the client and what the cap is.

That clearly implies that the airfare is not built into the cost of the
product, but is billed to the client as a separate line item.

I'm not questioning whether they should buy a jet, but I am questioning
his assertion that as long as his consultants use discretion, the client
won't know they flew in on a private jet.

Audits and paper trails aside, when I have gone on customer engagements
I am always asked about my flight arrangements. Usually it's just the
customers' guys being friendly, looking to swap travel stories with road
warriors. Often I'm asked because it affects when meetings are
scheduled too. Unless they start telling lies in response to those
harmless queries, a practice that is hard to maintain, there is simply
no way that "discretion" will keep the clients from knowing they flew in
on a corproate jet. Especially since he's talking about using it to
small towns without good airline service.

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
G.R. Patterson III wrote:

Audits and paper trails aside, when I have gone on customer engagements
I am always asked about my flight arrangements. Usually it's just the
customers' guys being friendly, looking to swap travel stories with road
warriors. Often I'm asked because it affects when meetings are
scheduled too. Unless they start telling lies in response to those
harmless queries, a practice that is hard to maintain, there is simply
no way that "discretion" will keep the clients from knowing they flew in
on a corproate jet. Especially since he's talking about using it to
small towns without good airline service.


Lying will work great until it doesn't, and then you're screwed. My approach
would be to simply have a standardized rate of tables for each city and a
surrounding area, based on airline fares. I'd be upfront with the client
that you use a company jet and this is to their benefit because the
consultants will arrive fresh and cheerful and not be in a rush to be out
the door at 3pm so they can make the last plane out of town.

-cwk.

C Kingsbury wrote:

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

I did not.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

D'oh. Damn newsreader.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


C Kingsbury wrote:

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

I did not.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble
enterprise.

I'm not supporting lying in any way. But, there is no reason to advertise
your mode of transportation. Personally it seems pretentious and
ostentatious other than in a passing remark or in response to a direct
question to reveal that you are traveling in such style. When somebody asks
what time is it, you don't say "Look at my Rolex!"

I have very little first hand experience with this, but, I have flown the
Warrior to several customers sites. Only one client knew that I flew
myself. Its always easy to be vague. When asked "What time does your
flight leave?", I simply look at my watch and say, "Oh, I've got plenty of
time." How was your flight? Great, I didn't lose my luggage.

CWK is right, when cornered we can be honest and justify the flight with the
same reasons that we justify the purchase, umm... if we justify the
purchase.

Ed


"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
. net...

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
G.R. Patterson III wrote:

Audits and paper trails aside, when I have gone on customer engagements
I am always asked about my flight arrangements. Usually it's just the
customers' guys being friendly, looking to swap travel stories with road
warriors. Often I'm asked because it affects when meetings are
scheduled too. Unless they start telling lies in response to those
harmless queries, a practice that is hard to maintain, there is simply
no way that "discretion" will keep the clients from knowing they flew in
on a corproate jet. Especially since he's talking about using it to
small towns without good airline service.


Lying will work great until it doesn't, and then you're screwed. My
approach
would be to simply have a standardized rate of tables for each city and a
surrounding area, based on airline fares. I'd be upfront with the client
that you use a company jet and this is to their benefit because the
consultants will arrive fresh and cheerful and not be in a rush to be out
the door at 3pm so they can make the last plane out of town.

-cwk.

"nobody" wrote in message
om...
I'm not supporting lying in any way. But, there is no reason to advertise
your mode of transportation. Personally it seems pretentious and
ostentatious other than in a passing remark or in response to a direct
question to reveal that you are traveling in such style. When somebody
asks
what time is it, you don't say "Look at my Rolex!"

Since 9/11 no one thinks business travel is a perk anymore. Even getting to
fly F is seen as merely a lighter form of punishment. All clients cared
about were the ticket prices.

CWK is right, when cornered we can be honest and justify the flight with
the
same reasons that we justify the purchase, umm... if we justify the
purchase.

The fact is that if you're making enough money to seriously consider
justifying flying your teams around by private jet, you're probably making a
killing on the software. How price-sensitive are your customers now and are
you seen as being low-cost or producing an extremely high ROI?

To be fair there can be benefits to this too, though. Companies like to feel
that they are doing business with winners, more so the higher up the ladder
you go. Flying in on your own jet certainly projects that image. Every
client will be different.

-cwk.