Owning more expensive than renting

wrote in message
news:7_mxd.379$Y57.11@trnddc08...
On 19-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

Now I'm looking for all weather capability, thinking of a turbo-prop.
We're putting together two projects to build a total 55 houses in two
towns....more than we now build in a year. Budget looks like $9.75M.

I should clarifiy that the amount mentioned is for the project, not for the
airplane.

There's usually three or four of us that have to travel together, 550nm
and 600nm
.
Any suggestions?


Nice problem to have! Sounds like the ideal mission profile for a single
turboprop (Meridian, TBM-700, PC-12), or maybe a Malibu Mirage. However,
either of the Pipers might have a problem making a 600 nm trip nonstop
with
4 aboard against a strong headwind and with IFR reserves.

I had been thinking King Air C90B, but a single might work.

How are they for "roominess"? These boys come from the construction trades
and are pretty "big" boys. My project leader is 6'7" and about 260.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

On 20-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

Sounds like the ideal mission profile for a single
turboprop (Meridian, TBM-700, PC-12), or maybe a Malibu Mirage.
However, either of the Pipers might have a problem making a 600 nm trip
nonstop
with 4 aboard against a strong headwind and with IFR reserves.

I had been thinking King Air C90B, but a single might work.

How are they for "roominess"? These boys come from the construction trades
and are pretty "big" boys. My project leader is 6'7" and about 260.


The Pipers are probably just a bit roomier than your B36TC (but pressurized,
so they will certainly be more comfortable). The TBM is quite a bit larger,
and I'd wager the PC-12 has more cabin room than a C-90 (and maybe half the
direct operating cost).

--
-Elliott Drucker

wrote in message
news:w7Hxd.2382$2X6.2213@trnddc07...

On 20-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

Sounds like the ideal mission profile for a single
turboprop (Meridian, TBM-700, PC-12), or maybe a Malibu Mirage.
However, either of the Pipers might have a problem making a 600 nm
trip
nonstop
with 4 aboard against a strong headwind and with IFR reserves.

I had been thinking King Air C90B, but a single might work.

How are they for "roominess"? These boys come from the construction
trades
and are pretty "big" boys. My project leader is 6'7" and about 260.


The Pipers are probably just a bit roomier than your B36TC (but
pressurized,
so they will certainly be more comfortable). The TBM is quite a bit
larger,
and I'd wager the PC-12 has more cabin room than a C-90 (and maybe half
the
direct operating cost).

In looking at some of the spec's, the PC-12 is definitely the choice. I
think I was gravitating to the King Air as I've been a Beech fan for some
years now. I checked it out on ASO and I'm not impressed with the Piper
Meridian, and the Piaggio is $8 million USED!! A PC-12 can be had for about
$2M, a TBM-700 for about $1.5M.

This is the off-season for our industry, so I'll use the time to do some
digging.

Thanks for your input.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Piaggio is $5.6MM new.

Mike
MU-2

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news:w7Hxd.2382$2X6.2213@trnddc07...

On 20-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

Sounds like the ideal mission profile for a single
turboprop (Meridian, TBM-700, PC-12), or maybe a Malibu Mirage.
However, either of the Pipers might have a problem making a 600 nm
trip
nonstop
with 4 aboard against a strong headwind and with IFR reserves.

I had been thinking King Air C90B, but a single might work.

How are they for "roominess"? These boys come from the construction
trades
and are pretty "big" boys. My project leader is 6'7" and about 260.


The Pipers are probably just a bit roomier than your B36TC (but
pressurized,
so they will certainly be more comfortable). The TBM is quite a bit
larger,
and I'd wager the PC-12 has more cabin room than a C-90 (and maybe half
the
direct operating cost).

In looking at some of the spec's, the PC-12 is definitely the choice. I
think I was gravitating to the King Air as I've been a Beech fan for some
years now. I checked it out on ASO and I'm not impressed with the Piper
Meridian, and the Piaggio is $8 million USED!! A PC-12 can be had for
about
$2M, a TBM-700 for about $1.5M.

This is the off-season for our industry, so I'll use the time to do some
digging.

Thanks for your input.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Piaggio is $5.6MM new.


I find two on ASO for just under $5M, a 1999 and a 2001 model.
Whatever...it's still way outside my budget.

I'm not impressed with the present market for the Cessna 441's I see on the
market. I can pick up a Commander 840 or even a 900 for less than $1M,
which is more akin to the budget and still suites the mission just fine.

Mike
MU-2

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news:w7Hxd.2382$2X6.2213@trnddc07...

On 20-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

Sounds like the ideal mission profile for a single
turboprop (Meridian, TBM-700, PC-12), or maybe a Malibu Mirage.
However, either of the Pipers might have a problem making a 600 nm
trip
nonstop
with 4 aboard against a strong headwind and with IFR reserves.

I had been thinking King Air C90B, but a single might work.

How are they for "roominess"? These boys come from the construction
trades
and are pretty "big" boys. My project leader is 6'7" and about 260.


The Pipers are probably just a bit roomier than your B36TC (but
pressurized,
so they will certainly be more comfortable). The TBM is quite a bit
larger,
and I'd wager the PC-12 has more cabin room than a C-90 (and maybe half
the
direct operating cost).

On 21-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

I find two on ASO for just under $5M, a 1999 and a 2001 model.
Whatever...it's still way outside my budget.

I'm not impressed with the present market for the Cessna 441's I see on
the market. I can pick up a Commander 840 or even a 900 for less than
$1M,
which is more akin to the budget and still suites the mission just fine.


Just remember that operating and maintenance costs for a 20 year old twin
turboprop will be the same or higher than for a brand new one. Purchase
price is only part of the story. The real question is, how much can you
afford in total hourly cost to fly the plane? Oh, and don't forget the cost
and time for recurrent training, which your insurance carrier is bound to
require.
--
-Elliott Drucker

wrote in message
news:cf%xd.6954$rL3.3392@trnddc03...

On 21-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

I find two on ASO for just under $5M, a 1999 and a 2001 model.
Whatever...it's still way outside my budget.

I'm not impressed with the present market for the Cessna 441's I see on
the market. I can pick up a Commander 840 or even a 900 for less than
$1M,
which is more akin to the budget and still suites the mission just fine.


Just remember that operating and maintenance costs for a 20 year old twin
turboprop will be the same or higher than for a brand new one.

Probably the same, and insurance probably will be less. Many of the ones I
saw have been refurbished, and some have been completely restored. One has
virtually new TFE331-10T engines (20 hours) and another, has an all new
Garmin/Meggitt panel.

Purchase
price is only part of the story. The real question is, how much can you
afford in total hourly cost to fly the plane? Oh, and don't forget the
cost
and time for recurrent training, which your insurance carrier is bound to
require.

Well, if I save a half million or more, I can afford a lot of training :~)

Like I said, I've got a couple months to keep digging.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

And the Commander's are much better airplanes!
Compare C/G envelopes and pax v fuel loading senarios.

Matt Barrow wrote:
I'm not impressed with the present market for the Cessna 441's I see on the
market. I can pick up a Commander 840 or even a 900 for less than $1M,
which is more akin to the budget and still suites the mission just fine.