Owning more expensive than renting

wrote in message
news:w7Hxd.2382$2X6.2213@trnddc07...

On 20-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

Sounds like the ideal mission profile for a single
turboprop (Meridian, TBM-700, PC-12), or maybe a Malibu Mirage.
However, either of the Pipers might have a problem making a 600 nm
trip
nonstop
with 4 aboard against a strong headwind and with IFR reserves.

I had been thinking King Air C90B, but a single might work.

How are they for "roominess"? These boys come from the construction
trades
and are pretty "big" boys. My project leader is 6'7" and about 260.


The Pipers are probably just a bit roomier than your B36TC (but
pressurized,
so they will certainly be more comfortable). The TBM is quite a bit
larger,
and I'd wager the PC-12 has more cabin room than a C-90 (and maybe half
the
direct operating cost).

In looking at some of the spec's, the PC-12 is definitely the choice. I
think I was gravitating to the King Air as I've been a Beech fan for some
years now. I checked it out on ASO and I'm not impressed with the Piper
Meridian, and the Piaggio is $8 million USED!! A PC-12 can be had for about
$2M, a TBM-700 for about $1.5M.

This is the off-season for our industry, so I'll use the time to do some
digging.

Thanks for your input.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Mary gets the right leading edge, and beer/pop.
What about the rest of the wing?
What about the horizonta and vertical stabilizors and rudder?

These parts get "The Pledge" treatment occasionally, when we're feeling
especially ambitious. They don't really get dirty -- only dusty. (As long
as your plane is hangared, of course.)

My son gets the empennage
Does this include the belly?

Our new M20 air/oil separator has basically put my son out of business. I
used to pay him $.50 per wingspan foot (30 feet = $15) to clean the bottom
of the plane once a month. Now, he hasn't had to do it since August.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Flying on paved strips only helps a lot. My airplane was based on a
grass/dirt strip for several years and pledge and a diaper just wouldn't
cut it!

We fly into a grass strip half a dozen times per year, and it takes Pledge,
diapers, and Simple Green (on the fiberglass parts) to clean up after those
excursions...

Likewise, I have a 1700' gravel driveway and my cars definitely need a
water bath before washing or I'd have my paint ground away in a few
washings.

Gravel driveways are the norm in rural Iowa. You can really tell the
"out-of-towners" by the beaters they drive into town. I'm sure they don't
see much point in buying an expensive car when you basically trash it
without ever leaving your property. (Of course, crushing rural poverty has
something to do with this, too...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:47:18 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Mary gets the right leading edge, and beer/pop.
What about the rest of the wing?
What about the horizonta and vertical stabilizors and rudder?

These parts get "The Pledge" treatment occasionally, when we're feeling
especially ambitious. They don't really get dirty -- only dusty. (As long
as your plane is hangared, of course.)

My son gets the empennage
Does this include the belly?

Our new M20 air/oil separator has basically put my son out of business. I
used to pay him $.50 per wingspan foot (30 feet = $15) to clean the bottom
of the plane once a month. Now, he hasn't had to do it since August.

:-)


Ahhh. No hangar here = dirty tail. The birds love to practice bombing
the horizontal stabilizer from the beacon. Also no M20 separator, or
children = more work for me!

Thanks,
z

Suggestion Matt... I don't know crapola about turboprops, but I have
spent my whole life banging around airports... If you go to an all
weather turboprop consider hiring an ATP rated pilot with a degree in
business or engineering, etc., who can be your copilot and can work in
the business when not flying... If you and your partners are going to
take on a multimillion dollar project with short timelines, you will
have far more on your mind than having fun flying - especially those
VOR-A approaches with circle to land in nasty weather, when you
absolutely, positively, have to be there...
Denny

Piaggio is $5.6MM new.

Mike
MU-2

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news:w7Hxd.2382$2X6.2213@trnddc07...

On 20-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

Sounds like the ideal mission profile for a single
turboprop (Meridian, TBM-700, PC-12), or maybe a Malibu Mirage.
However, either of the Pipers might have a problem making a 600 nm
trip
nonstop
with 4 aboard against a strong headwind and with IFR reserves.

I had been thinking King Air C90B, but a single might work.

How are they for "roominess"? These boys come from the construction
trades
and are pretty "big" boys. My project leader is 6'7" and about 260.


The Pipers are probably just a bit roomier than your B36TC (but
pressurized,
so they will certainly be more comfortable). The TBM is quite a bit
larger,
and I'd wager the PC-12 has more cabin room than a C-90 (and maybe half
the
direct operating cost).

In looking at some of the spec's, the PC-12 is definitely the choice. I
think I was gravitating to the King Air as I've been a Beech fan for some
years now. I checked it out on ASO and I'm not impressed with the Piper
Meridian, and the Piaggio is $8 million USED!! A PC-12 can be had for
about
$2M, a TBM-700 for about $1.5M.

This is the off-season for our industry, so I'll use the time to do some
digging.

Thanks for your input.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Denny" wrote in message
ups.com...
Suggestion Matt... I don't know crapola about turboprops, but I have
spent my whole life banging around airports... If you go to an all
weather turboprop consider hiring an ATP rated pilot with a degree in
business or engineering, etc., who can be your copilot and can work in
the business when not flying...

Unfortunately, I need neither a business person, nor an engineer though that
might (probably will) change.

Why would the person need an ATP?

If you and your partners are going to
take on a multimillion dollar project with short timelines,

What do you consider "short timelines"? We're looking at nine months. Then
next year we think we can do it again.

you will
have far more on your mind than having fun flying - especially those
VOR-A approaches with circle to land in nasty weather, when you
absolutely, positively, have to be there...

Believe me, where we're going there are definitely NOT just VOR-A
approaches...even though these two main sites are not in major metropolitan
areas. :~) We still expect to do a few other projects, though most places
don't have those approaches either.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Piaggio is $5.6MM new.


I find two on ASO for just under $5M, a 1999 and a 2001 model.
Whatever...it's still way outside my budget.

I'm not impressed with the present market for the Cessna 441's I see on the
market. I can pick up a Commander 840 or even a 900 for less than $1M,
which is more akin to the budget and still suites the mission just fine.

Mike
MU-2

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news:w7Hxd.2382$2X6.2213@trnddc07...

On 20-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

Sounds like the ideal mission profile for a single
turboprop (Meridian, TBM-700, PC-12), or maybe a Malibu Mirage.
However, either of the Pipers might have a problem making a 600 nm
trip
nonstop
with 4 aboard against a strong headwind and with IFR reserves.

I had been thinking King Air C90B, but a single might work.

How are they for "roominess"? These boys come from the construction
trades
and are pretty "big" boys. My project leader is 6'7" and about 260.


The Pipers are probably just a bit roomier than your B36TC (but
pressurized,
so they will certainly be more comfortable). The TBM is quite a bit
larger,
and I'd wager the PC-12 has more cabin room than a C-90 (and maybe half
the
direct operating cost).

On 21-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

I find two on ASO for just under $5M, a 1999 and a 2001 model.
Whatever...it's still way outside my budget.

I'm not impressed with the present market for the Cessna 441's I see on
the market. I can pick up a Commander 840 or even a 900 for less than
$1M,
which is more akin to the budget and still suites the mission just fine.


Just remember that operating and maintenance costs for a 20 year old twin
turboprop will be the same or higher than for a brand new one. Purchase
price is only part of the story. The real question is, how much can you
afford in total hourly cost to fly the plane? Oh, and don't forget the cost
and time for recurrent training, which your insurance carrier is bound to
require.
--
-Elliott Drucker

And the Commander's are much better airplanes!
Compare C/G envelopes and pax v fuel loading senarios.

Matt Barrow wrote:
I'm not impressed with the present market for the Cessna 441's I see on the
market. I can pick up a Commander 840 or even a 900 for less than $1M,
which is more akin to the budget and still suites the mission just fine.