Cost of ownership question

Ben Jackson wrote:

In article 1104417758.851483@sj-nntpcache-3, Dave Butler wrote:
Stealth Pilot wrote:

At my airport, at the end of 10 years I'd have spent an extra $27000, the
difference between hangaring and an outside tie-down. I think I could do a
pretty nice restoration (if it needed it, which it won't) for $27000.

In ten years the new paintjob you'll need will be half that.

Get real. A complete recover job on my Maule is less than that -- at Maule.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 00:56:45 GMT, "Shane O"
wrote:

I changed my name ... I didn't think "ohfuk24" was appropriate.

Actually, I too live in Hayward. Maybe we should get together sometime and

Sounds good. If nothing else, I plan to start IFR training soon, so I
could use a safety pilot.

share stories. All the schools at HWD left a bad taste in my mouth. Along

Really? I'm happy with Cal Airways. At least they have a Skylane, and
I've been flying it exclusively.

with the problem of being smack dab in the midde of OAKs charlie airspace I
decided to go with a school at Livermore (LVK). The school is Ahart
Aviation and I would probably recommend them to anyone.

Yeah, all the airspace around Hayward is a pain in the ass. Oakland
Class C, SFO class B, SJC class C, it's like flying through a giant
jigsaw puzzle.

I always try to get flight following, and when you do, they normally
do your clearances automatically for you, as well as let you know
about other traffic, most of which I'd never see if they didn't tell
me about them.


You can get them at their website at http://www.ahart.com

It looks like a nice club, but I didn't want to have to drive a half
hour or more to fly. Hayward airport is a 10 minute drive.

Please feel free to email me personally anytime and maybe we can start up a
new friendship.

Sounds good. My email address displayed here is incomplete for spam
protection. It's add "dsl" after "fiero" to email me.

I visited all of the FBOs withing a two hour drive of me, I live
in Northern Cal, Bay Area, so that is a lot of flight schools to visit.

Wow, that's serious research. My limit is about a 1 hour drive which gives
me 5 airports only 3 of which have FBOs. One of the big problems that I
have is that I am 99% interested in renting Citabrias / Decathalons and
about 1% interested in everything else. Very few clubs have taildraggers
and those that do usually only have 1 or 2 on the flight line. This isn't a
big pool for the aerobatic / tailwheel students. As such, scheduling is
always cumbersome especially for all-day or multi-day rentals.

Slip'er

Well I do believe that I missed your point about the type of plane you are
looking to rent. And yes, I agree they are few and far between and when
found, hard to schedule.

Shane O



"Slip'er" wrote in message
news:YF2Bd.20809$8e5.3027@fed1read07...
I visited all of the FBOs withing a two hour drive of me, I live
in Northern Cal, Bay Area, so that is a lot of flight schools to visit.

Wow, that's serious research. My limit is about a 1 hour drive which
gives
me 5 airports only 3 of which have FBOs. One of the big problems that I
have is that I am 99% interested in renting Citabrias / Decathalons and
about 1% interested in everything else. Very few clubs have taildraggers
and those that do usually only have 1 or 2 on the flight line. This isn't
a
big pool for the aerobatic / tailwheel students. As such, scheduling is
always cumbersome especially for all-day or multi-day rentals.

Slip'er

On 30-Dec-2004, Matt Whiting wrote:

Actually, the Arrow I now fly in a club has a greater full fuel useful
load than did my 182. Now its full fuel is 50 gallons rather than 84
(or was it 88, I forgot for the 182 with LR tanks), but it still carries
a surprising amount. The downside is that the 180 HP is really
noticeable at gross weight. It climbs about like a C-150. I really
miss the 182 on TO and climb. The Arrow is marginally faster in cruise,
but not by much. The win is that it burns about 9 GPH at 125 knots
rather than 12.


My Arrow IV has a useful load of 980 lbs. With full tanks (72 gal usable)
VFR range (1 hr reserve) is about 900 nm. With fuel limited to 50 gal
usable payload is a solid 680 lbs. I get 135 kts on 9.4 gph at 65% cruise
(at 9000 ft.) There is a big efficiency difference between the 200 hp and
180 hp engines.

--
-Elliott Drucker

In article ,
G.R. Patterson III wrote:

In ten years the new paintjob you'll need will be half that.

Get real. A complete recover job on my Maule is less than that -- at Maule.

In... ten... years...

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

In the 4 years that I have had my airplane I have "saved" $10,320 over
having the plane hangered. There is still a 12-year waiting list for
hangers - they say that a few will be built next year (all are already
BRBR


Where I live, the smallest t-hanger is $550(US) a month. The waiting list goes
back well over a decade. The average size t-hanger on the field goes for $700.
Box hangers $1200 and up.

$6600/yr for a hanger.

Cost of a pretty decent single engine plane every 10 years.


--
Dr. Nuketopia
Sorry, no e-Mail.
Spam forgeries have resulted in thousands of faked bounces to my address.

corrosion will not always be
seen and can add considerably to the maintenance costs at each annual.
it doesnt take much corrosion in the wrong spot to ruin an otherwise
serviceable part.


I'm afraid most of this is BS. My husband's Luscombe 8A was parked outside
for nearly all of its 60 years. His last wing covering lasted over 20 years.
He has a hangar now because someone at our airport died. No amount of money
or influence can get you a hangar where none exist.

My airplane has been parked outside for the past 10 years. It has no paint
on it, and I have no corrosion. It just passed another extensive annual just
this past week. My only squawk was a worn brake pulley.

Deb
--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Jasper, Ga. (JZP)
"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:37:57 -0500, Dave Butler wrote:

Stealth Pilot wrote:


just close your eyes and consider the difference in airworthiness
between a hangared aircraft and one sitting in the open after 1 year,
5 years, ten years. after that time one aircraft will just about be in
pristine condition and the other close to needing extensive
restoration.

At my airport, at the end of 10 years I'd have spent an extra $27000, the
difference between hangaring and an outside tie-down. I think I could do a
pretty nice restoration (if it needed it, which it won't) for $27000.

then get a big enough hangar so that a few (lots) of you can share the
costs or find a cheaper airport.

the implicit assumption in your post is that an aircraft just prior to
restoration will be enjoyable and safe to fly. will it?

but yes I'm talking from my appreciation of other peoples aircraft
maintenance issues. I hangar mine and at 20 years it is still in worry
free condition and nowhere near needing a restoration effort.
ymmv
Stealth Pilot

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:22:39 -0800, "Slip'er"
wrote:

all right you guys, I surrender. Leave them out in the weather and
throw dirt on them every time you have finsihed flying :-)

what you guys have proven to me is that our little airfield 50km south
of Perth in Western Australia is even more special than I had
believed.

we maintain and develop the field ourselves. we have a peppercorn
lease on the property (free) and the costs are club dues plus a few
days occasionally spent on the tractor and slasher mowing the flat
open areas of the airfield.(which is good clean fun)

if we were subject to the costs you put up with not one of us could
afford to be flying. my hangarage costs are about $600 per year.
in fact my overheads are no more than $2000 per year with flying
costing $20-25 per hour.

I'll leave you guys to slash wrists, bay at the moon in frustration,
and I'll just go back to my little piece of heaven.

Stealth Pilot

I'll leave you guys to slash wrists, bay at the moon in frustration,
and I'll just go back to my little piece of heaven.

I wouldn't mind a little piece of your heaven. Oh wait, I would be an
"illegal alien" there and Australia is a lot smarter than the US on that
issue...you'd throw me out.