A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Owning
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

3 lives lost



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 6th 05, 04:56 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Colin,

I agree that the fighter pilot was probably unrecoverable. The tough
part from my position is how to separate those from the recoverable
ones *before* they make their airplane into an aluminium plate on the
side of a rock. Since I have not yet figured out how to tell, I tend
to give it my best to try to get to whatever common sense might still
be operating while there still is time to try. A lot of that effor is
wasted.

In the interest of effort that probably will not be wasted (you seem to
be listening) , I want to point out that the idea that there was
'something psychologically busted in her brain' misses the most
important point. Most likely there was not; the fact is, we all are
susceptible to the same kind of error. That's the point; that she
*wasn't* different from the rest of us, that the only thing that
separates us from 'them' is a will to choose--and it is a choice--not
to succumb to the same temptations.

There was nothing 'wrong' with her. She was just like us. We could do
the same thing tomorrow, except that--if we choose--we can realize that
and learn from her mistakes and decide to take actions to make sure
that when we are being taken down that path by our emotions, that we
then *choose* to do not what we want to do, nor what everyone else is
doing, nor what will make us popular, but rather that which we know is
better from a purely rational point of view. It sounds easy when we
are not in the midst of it, and in fact it is not.

Gene

  #2  
Old January 8th 05, 05:37 PM
Colin W Kingsbury
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
oups.com...

In the interest of effort that probably will not be wasted (you seem to
be listening) , I want to point out that the idea that there was
'something psychologically busted in her brain' misses the most
important point. Most likely there was not; the fact is, we all are
susceptible to the same kind of error. That's the point; that she
*wasn't* different from the rest of us, that the only thing that
separates us from 'them' is a will to choose--and it is a choice--not
to succumb to the same temptations.


Like I said, I understand VFR into IMC, and I can see it happening in the
context of a rational thought process. This specific case I have a much
harder time with. I'm just trying to reconstruct the thought process in my
head that could lead someone to take off in these conditions.

-cwk.


  #3  
Old January 8th 05, 08:28 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Colin,

I'm just trying to reconstruct the thought process in my
head that could lead someone to take off in these conditions.


Good, that's what I am trying to get people to do.

The reasons are many, but they all fall into the same category: trying
to please somebody. Often its financial pressure (I need the revenue
today); time pressure (we gotta get to work by 8am); social pressures
(they'll think I'm a wimp); need to prove one's self (I'll show them, I
can fly in conditions the rest of these weaklings are afraid of), etc.

Ron Brown is dead because his USAF pilot succumbed to the time
pressure.
JFK Jr is dead because he felt he needed to prove he could do it by
himself.

At the end of Oct we just lost another bizjet in San Diego because they
were in too much of a hurry to take the time to make a phone call and
prefile; instead they did a night VFR takeoff under a 2100 ft overcast,
in a valley surrounded by mountains. The idea was to file in the air
by radio. Their airplane made a big boom and a great flash of light as
it dashed itslef into a zillion pieces against the side of Otay
mountain, 8 nm east of the departure airport. The wreckage was about
3000 feet away from the site where another jet pilot did *exactly* the
same thing, from the same airport, hitting the same mountain, ten years
earlier. In that case it was carrying half of Reba MacEntyre's band.

I'm sure they saved at least 10 to 15 minutes each.

Recommended reading: AC60-22, available online at the faa's website.
Redefining Airmanship, by Tony Kern. Aviation Psychology, ed by
Roscoe. Human Factors in Aviation, ed by Nagel.

"If you think you are late now, just imagine how late you will be when
you are dead."

Gene

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
American nazi pond scum, version two bushite kills bushite Naval Aviation 0 December 21st 04 10:46 PM
Hey! What fun!! Let's let them kill ourselves!!! [email protected] Naval Aviation 2 December 17th 04 09:45 PM
Germany Lost the War... So What? robert arndt Military Aviation 55 February 26th 04 08:51 AM
Lost comms after radar vector Mike Ciholas Instrument Flight Rules 119 January 31st 04 11:39 PM
Soviet Submarines Losses - WWII Mike Yared Military Aviation 4 October 30th 03 03:09 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.