Challenger Crashe at TEB

Aardvark wrote:
....
The pilot of a corporate jet that sped off a runway at Teterboro Airport
and smashed into a warehouse told investigators yesterday that the
control wheel malfunctioned, forcing him to abruptly abort takeoff.
....

Don't turbine aircraft POH's require sufficient runway length to stop
after an abort?

In article , Doug Carter wrote:
Aardvark wrote:
...
The pilot of a corporate jet that sped off a runway at Teterboro Airport
and smashed into a warehouse told investigators yesterday that the
control wheel malfunctioned, forcing him to abruptly abort takeoff.
...

Don't turbine aircraft POH's require sufficient runway length to stop
after an abort?

Quoted figure for highest speed achieved was 174 MPH, or about 150 knots.

For a plane that small, I'm guessing they were above V1; in which case,
bets for coming to a full stop on remaining runway is pretty much off.

I'm not sure what the Challenger V1 for that weight was, but I can't
imagine it being much higher than 125 knots or so.

Though, I'll grant, they were nearly fully loaded with passengers (but
perhaps not significant cargo if they were business execs on a 'day
trip').

I haven't heard of a V1 that high in a long time except for certain
extreme high performance jets. (SR-71, Concorde?)

So in my mind, it seems more probable that the Challenger was already
past V1 at time of abort.

Idle speculation, though, and I'd appreciate corrections from anyone
whom knows that plane.

-Dan

Runways are selected to assure the ability to accelerate to V1 and then stop with maximum braking. You are committed to
fly passing V1, but that assumes that the plane will fly. Quite often Vr is faster than V1...

Blueskies wrote:

Runways are selected to assure the ability to accelerate to V1 and then stop with maximum braking.

Isn't it the other way round: The runway length defines v1?

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message ...
Blueskies wrote:

Runways are selected to assure the ability to accelerate to V1 and then stop with maximum braking.

Isn't it the other way round: The runway length defines v1?

Stefan

Well, yea, gross takeoff weight and density altitude, etc control define V1, so you could look at a runway then decide
the max weight allowable for that day. You need to be sure that the runway is long enough to accel to V1 then stop...

Blueskies wrote:

Quite often Vr is faster than V1...

Knowing this, but being only SE rated, I've a question:

It seems that certain problems become apparent only at Vr. So why not use
that as the "size of runway/weight of aircraft" factor?


I'm also curious as to whether the aircraft in this accident gets the same
type of runup as do the little Cessnas I fly. One part of this is always
pulling the yoke back and confirming elevator movement (in the proper
direction).

- Andrew

"Blueskies" wrote in message
m...

Quite often Vr is faster than V1...

By definition Vr is never less than V1.

"Doug Carter" wrote in message
om...

Don't turbine aircraft POH's require sufficient runway length to stop
after an abort?

Yes, but an abort is predicated prior to or at V1 (takeoff decision speed),
not after the higher Vr (rotate speed).