Pilot runs out of fuel waiting for security clearance

"John Harlow" wrote in
:


This whole thing is either going to blow over in another year or two,
or it's going to get worse. Do you think that you are going to be able
to do anything about it if the TSA decides to put in Permanent
Restrictions that ARE effective at protecting the country from a GA
Suicide Bomber?

You have totally missed the points.

1 - TSRs _only_ impact law abiding people. Circles on a sectional will
not stop someone out to kill themselves.

True for small TFRs like the stadium TFRs. But not true for the ADIZ and
larger TFRs (like 30NM Presidential ones). If a controller sees a 1200
squawk within 30NM of Washington, DC, what do you think happens next?

2 - GA had *nothing* to do with 9/11, and GA is the *only* group
affected by TSRs.

GA is what the people are afraid of because the TSA has been able to
convince people that waving a metal detector wand in front of all the
passengers on airlines and taking away tweasers is security enough to
cover them, and now they are safe. "But what about those little planes
who don't go through security?" people ask. So the TSA's answer is, "We
put restrictions on them, and now you are safe again."

What "restrictions" could they possibly put in place to effectively
prevent a "GA suicide bomber" anyway? Pull a Daley and bulldoze all
the grass strips and farms in the country?

How about metal detectors and airline-style security systems in all
airports? Or Permanent Flight Restrictions in the areas that are now
Temporary, or more ADIZ Zones preventing GA pilots from flying over
populated areas without discrete transponder codes and two-way
communication with ATC?

1 - TSRs _only_ impact law abiding people. Circles on a sectional will
not stop someone out to kill themselves.

True for small TFRs like the stadium TFRs. But not true for the ADIZ and
larger TFRs (like 30NM Presidential ones). If a controller sees a 1200
squawk within 30NM of Washington, DC, what do you think happens next?

Well, it has happend many times so far and I've seen no action taken (i.e.
blowing them out of the sky) which would have stopped a suicide bomber. So,
how have TSRs been effective? None whatsoever. They're just a nusiance.

2 - GA had *nothing* to do with 9/11, and GA is the *only* group
affected by TSRs.

GA is what the people are afraid of

Where do you get THIS from?

because the TSA has been able to
convince people that waving a metal detector wand in front of all the
passengers on airlines and taking away tweasers is security enough to
cover them, and now they are safe. "But what about those little planes
who don't go through security?" people ask.

What people? What is your source for such statements?

So the TSA's answer is, "We
put restrictions on them, and now you are safe again."

Take the kid who crashed into the Bank Of America building in florida. No
TSR would have stopped that, BTW. And actually it showed how little
capacity a small plane has for destruction. I believe a person's window and
desk was demolished. Frankly, it was good for GA.

What "restrictions" could they possibly put in place to effectively
prevent a "GA suicide bomber" anyway? Pull a Daley and bulldoze all
the grass strips and farms in the country?

How about metal detectors and airline-style security systems in all
airports? Or Permanent Flight Restrictions in the areas that are now
Temporary, or more ADIZ Zones preventing GA pilots from flying over
populated areas without discrete transponder codes and two-way
communication with ATC?

Yes. This would definitely stop all law abiding suicide bombers.

Bottom line is: the only *real* way to prevent this is to ground all
aircraft and shoot down any which may get in the air.

Judah wrote:

1 - TSRs _only_ impact law abiding people. Circles on a sectional will
not stop someone out to kill themselves.

True for small TFRs like the stadium TFRs. But not true for the ADIZ and
larger TFRs (like 30NM Presidential ones). If a controller sees a 1200
squawk within 30NM of Washington, DC, what do you think happens next?

Why do you believe that someone bent on harm would be dutifully
activating their transponder and squawking 1200, flying a plane
with a large primary radar footprint, or flying in a manner which
would make them straightforward to intercept in less than 10
minutes?

What "restrictions" could they possibly put in place to effectively
prevent a "GA suicide bomber" anyway?

How about metal detectors and airline-style security systems in all
airports? Or Permanent Flight Restrictions in the areas that are now
Temporary, or more ADIZ Zones preventing GA pilots from flying over
populated areas without discrete transponder codes and two-way
communication with ATC?

These are examples of more restrictions which would impact only law
abiding people without effectively deterring someone bent on harm.

Cheers,
Sydney

Sidney

You are reading too much media hype.

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:32:22 GMT, Sydney Hoeltzli

----clip----

Why do you believe that someone bent on harm would be dutifully
activating their transponder and squawking 1200, flying a plane
with a large primary radar footprint, or flying in a manner which
would make them straightforward to

************* intercept in less than 10 minutes?*************

Impossible in todays world with the ROE in effect and status and
location of Interceptors.

I spent 15 years intercepting 'unknown' aircraft and we sat on 5
minute alert 7/24.

Todays aircraft have been cut back from 9/11 status and are unable to
react soonest and in no way can meet your "10 minutes"

Sorry about that.


Big John

Big John wrote in message . ..
Sidney

You are reading too much media hype.

Big John,

I think you're misreading my post.

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:32:22 GMT, Sydney Hoeltzli

----clip----

Why do you believe that someone bent on harm would be dutifully
activating their transponder and squawking 1200, flying a plane
with a large primary radar footprint, or flying in a manner which
would make them straightforward to

************* intercept in less than 10 minutes?*************

Impossible in todays world with the ROE in effect and status and
location of Interceptors.


That was my SWAG.

No need to be sorry; you just helped me make my point.

Sydney

Sidney

Sorry bout that.

Measured once and cut twice.............................or some such.

Big John


On 18 Jul 2003 22:07:21 -0700, (Snowbird)
wrote:

Big John wrote in message . ..
Sidney

You are reading too much media hype.

Big John,

I think you're misreading my post.

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:32:22 GMT, Sydney Hoeltzli

----clip----

Why do you believe that someone bent on harm would be dutifully
activating their transponder and squawking 1200, flying a plane
with a large primary radar footprint, or flying in a manner which
would make them straightforward to

************* intercept in less than 10 minutes?*************

Impossible in todays world with the ROE in effect and status and
location of Interceptors.


That was my SWAG.

No need to be sorry; you just helped me make my point.

Sydney