Reported by CNN this morning!!!!!

On 18 Jul 2003 19:22:06 -0700, (Kevin Darling)
wrote:

I've heard from many airline pilot friends that they have
(unofficially) slept on long trips.

So have I, from a pilot on the ComAir payroll.

I think the pilot's mistake was not so much that he was asleep while
another had the controls; the safety problem with that is not as
critical in a 2-crew airplane at cruise.

Rather, it was that he let his passengers get unsettled enough to
document it. Never scare the pax, right? They pay the bills for the
flight, after all...

So while falling asleep wasn't bad for flight safety so much, it was
*very* bad for business. Wasn't he sacked?

Rob

Robert Perkins wrote in message I think the pilot's mistake was not so
much that he was asleep while another had the controls; the safety problem
with that is not as
critical in a 2-crew airplane at cruise.

Walker's flies a few times per week, one hour out and one hour back, always
during the day with the crew being home every night. It's not a high demand
job. Doing back-to-back red-eyes out to LAX can tax one with fatigue, but
not doing a cake job like Walker's. Besides, a professional pilot makes sure
he is well rested before taking a flight, or he calls out sick.

The FO is certainly capable of flying the plane. However, radar services are
NOT available for much of their route and there is a lot of traffic crossing
that route. An extra set of eyes scanning for traffic is a valuable safety
asset.

Rather, it was that he let his passengers get unsettled enough to
document it. Never scare the pax, right? They pay the bills for the
flight, after all...

They weren't unsettled. They were giggling. They don't pay the bills either.
The island is huge tax write-off for a big corporation. Those passengers
will likely be back. The one on CNN said as much.

So while falling asleep wasn't bad for flight safety so much, it was
*very* bad for business. Wasn't he sacked?

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. He resigned.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 07:54:57 GMT, "Capt. Doug"
wrote:

The FO is certainly capable of flying the plane. However, radar services are
NOT available for much of their route and there is a lot of traffic crossing
that route. An extra set of eyes scanning for traffic is a valuable safety
asset.

And I, in the light singles I'm allowed to fly? Were I to fly that
route under part 91, would I therefore be a detrimental safety
liability, if my pax don't scan for traffic?

(And yes, I've had conversations with pilots who reported waking up in
their light single in an unusual attitude. Not fun, I'm told...)

I didn't argue that the man didn't need to be awake. I argue that it
was much worse on the company flying that leg to have a pilot get
caught doing what pilots do on occasion, and have that hit the news
("OMG! a pilot was asleep! That's worse than Palestinian Suicide
Bombers! Run the video again, Bob!") than the actual detriment to
safety warranted.

IOW, pax overreacted. Media (as usual) overreacted.

One thing's for sure, though, IMO. The age-60 rule just got itself
another point in the "pro" column, don't you think?

So while falling asleep wasn't bad for flight safety so much, it was
*very* bad for business. Wasn't he sacked?

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. He resigned.

Nixon style, beating them to the pink slip? Or would he have kept his
job after making the national news anyway? eh?

Rob

"Capt. Doug" wrote in message ...
Robert Perkins said:

wrote in message I think the pilot's mistake was not so
much that he was asleep while another had the controls; the safety problem
with that is not as
critical in a 2-crew airplane at cruise. snip, snip

Cap sez:

Walker's flies a few times per week, one hour out and one hour back, always
during the day with the crew being home every night. It's not a high demand
job. Doing back-to-back red-eyes out to LAX can tax one with fatigue, but
not doing a cake job like Walker's. Besides, a professional pilot makes sure
he is well rested before taking a flight, or he calls out sick. snip, both ends

Pac sez:

Right you are Cap Doug... but, Boy, I'm not touching this one with a
ten-foot pole. But you ougtta see how many people are awake on the
flight deck of a "back door" round the world flight somewhere around
MNL to BOM. ;-) Time zones, circadian rhythm disruption, short
layovers, and fatigue from struggling to understand foreign
controllers (over 80% of communication is through facial expressions.)
NASA did sleep studies in the 90's; wired us up for six mo's. The
preliminary report concluded we "were operating in a dangerously
impaired state" from sleep deprivation "most of the time" (night cargo
ops.) Big box-hauler management got wind of this, and saw to it that
the report (which was on their property, and published voluntarily
with their consent,) was never published. UPS pilots sued, and then I
never heard what the outcome was.

Keep the door closed! Never know who's hiding in a suspicious looking
box with a camcorder!

pac "cargo dog" plyer

"Capt. Doug" wrote in message
news:lP6Sa.62639

Rather, it was that he let his passengers get unsettled enough to
document it. Never scare the pax, right? They pay the bills for the
flight, after all...

They weren't unsettled. They were giggling. They don't pay the bills
either.
The island is huge tax write-off for a big corporation. Those passengers
will likely be back. The one on CNN said as much.

A difference without distinction.

So while falling asleep wasn't bad for flight safety so much, it was
*very* bad for business. Wasn't he sacked?

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. He resigned.

See above

Maule Driver wrote in message A difference without distinction.

I dunno... Hollywood has a saying about there being no such thing as bad
publicity. Walker's couldn't have bought better publicity. Sure, it was a
little embarrassing, but how many folks saw the broadcast and then Googled
Walker's Cay?

D.