How much does a CFI make?

Argh. This always gets me. It's one thing to pay for training. It's
another thing entirely to work for free. To do that is to completely
devalue your skills.

That, and it puts a working pilot out of a job. She should be shot.




-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

"Ditch" wrote in message
...
Argh. This always gets me. It's one thing to pay for training. It's
another thing entirely to work for free. To do that is to completely
devalue your skills.

That, and it puts a working pilot out of a job. She should be shot.

Shot? Isn't that a little extreme?

I fail to see the difference between what she's doing, and what every other
inexperienced commercial pilot does, except in degree. Fact is, EVERY pilot
trying to get into the big cushy airline job puts up with all sorts of
"devaluing" situations, whether that's a low income, ****ty hours, no choice
about relocation, or cleaning the dog poop off of some corporate customer's
shoes.

I've never heard of any person getting into commercial aviation for any
reason other than that they love to fly. People like that, they are
inclined to do crazy things just to get into a cockpit, including flying for
nothing except the hours.

So, what's the difference if one person decides that they are willing to go
all the way down to zero pay to win the job? You can argue till the cows
come home that no one ought to do that, but look around you: even those
pilots who are getting paid aren't getting paid what they ought to be paid,
given how much training and hassles they've been through to get where they
are.

Any time someone agrees to fly an airplane for less than another pilot is
willing to, they "put a working pilot out of a job". But at the same time,
one working pilot gets the job. Pilots get paid low wages because most of
them *would* fly for no pay, push come to shove. Just happens one person
actually wound up doing that.

Pete

If I own a corporate plane I want the most qualified person flying for me I can
find. One reason I don't ride on buses. Drivers are usually a $7 per hour
person. I won't trust my life to that person. I'd never put my child on a
school bus, either.


Trip

In article ,
says...

"Ditch" wrote in message
...
Argh. This always gets me. It's one thing to pay for training. It's
another thing entirely to work for free. To do that is to completely
devalue your skills.

That, and it puts a working pilot out of a job. She should be shot.

Shot? Isn't that a little extreme?

I fail to see the difference between what she's doing, and what every other
inexperienced commercial pilot does, except in degree. Fact is, EVERY pilot
trying to get into the big cushy airline job puts up with all sorts of
"devaluing" situations, whether that's a low income, ****ty hours, no choice
about relocation, or cleaning the dog poop off of some corporate customer's
shoes.

I've never heard of any person getting into commercial aviation for any
reason other than that they love to fly. People like that, they are
inclined to do crazy things just to get into a cockpit, including flying for
nothing except the hours.

So, what's the difference if one person decides that they are willing to go
all the way down to zero pay to win the job? You can argue till the cows
come home that no one ought to do that, but look around you: even those
pilots who are getting paid aren't getting paid what they ought to be paid,
given how much training and hassles they've been through to get where they
are.

Any time someone agrees to fly an airplane for less than another pilot is
willing to, they "put a working pilot out of a job". But at the same time,
one working pilot gets the job. Pilots get paid low wages because most of
them *would* fly for no pay, push come to shove. Just happens one person
actually wound up doing that.

Pete

"TripFarmer" wrote in message
...
If I own a corporate plane I want the most qualified person flying for me
I can
find.

Not everyone shares that approach.

One reason I don't ride on buses. Drivers are usually a $7 per hour
person. I won't trust my life to that person.

Probably not a bad idea. You're right, they aren't the best drivers in the
world (and my opinion of them is even lower since I got rear-ended by a
full-size bus a few months ago). But again, not everyone shares that
approach.

None of that has anything to do with a pilot flying for no pay, other than
perhaps the fact that YOU wouldn't allow a pilot to fly for no pay (and
honestly, just because the pilot is willing to fly for no pay, that doesn't
mean they're unqualified).

Pete

In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote:

None of that has anything to do with a pilot flying for no pay, other than
perhaps the fact that YOU wouldn't allow a pilot to fly for no pay (and
honestly, just because the pilot is willing to fly for no pay, that doesn't
mean they're unqualified).

My question about this situation would be whether or not the pilot in
question has actually been trained and certified to act as a required
crewmember under part 135. If they're not going to pay the pilot, are
they going to take the time and go to the expense and trouble of
training that pilot? Part 135 training is not trivial, although someone
could certainly make it so. The company's FAA-approved training manual
outlines the number of hours of ground training required, as well as the
flight training requirements. After that, there is a checkride with
either a company check airman or FAA inspector. Then there is annual
recurrent training and a checkride (for SICs - PICs get semi-annual
checkrides). This all costs something. If the company needs the pilot,
they ought to be paying the pilot. If they're skimping on their pilots
and taking whoever will work for free, what else are they skimping on?

I would guess that what's really going on is that the pilot is "riding
along for experience" and flying any empty legs that can be flown under
part 91.

--
Larry Fransson
Aviation software for Mac OS X!
http://www.subcritical.com

"Larry Fransson" wrote in message
...
[...] If the company needs the pilot,
they ought to be paying the pilot. If they're skimping on their pilots
and taking whoever will work for free, what else are they skimping on?

All fair questions. I'm just questioning the automatic hostility that this
pilot has received in absentia.

I would guess that what's really going on is that the pilot is "riding
along for experience" and flying any empty legs that can be flown under
part 91.

Could very well be. Even more reason for folks to not judge her so harshly.

Pete

"Ditch" wrote in message
...

Argh. This always gets me. It's one thing to pay for training. It's
another thing entirely to work for free. To do that is to completely
devalue your skills.

That, and it puts a working pilot out of a job. She should be shot.

Work for nothing? That's nothing. You can buy the right seat on Alpine
Air's Beech 99's.