About those anti-aviatoin newsgroups

Really, I had no intention of starting a heated discussion on homosexual
rights with my original post. This thread confirms some things for me,
though:

There is no one who is so intolerant as someone who professes to hate
intolerance. The Boy Scouts is a private organization devoted to the
interests of straight young males. So what? Those who cannot stand the
existence of such an organization genuinely deserve the appellation of
"heterophobes." It is hypocritical to assert that the Scouts are attempting
to impose their morality on others. They are doing no such thing. In fact,
the critics are attempting to impose their morality on the Scouts, which I
think is just wrong.

My personal feelings about the matter is that any private organization
should be able to discriminate against any group that it wishes for any
reason. This is the only way to achieve and maintain any kind of healthy
cultural and political diversity. Here is where modern liberalism has
failed. Instead of celebrating diversity, as it claims, modern liberalism
seems solely interested in an Orwellian, politically correct monoculture
where the only value is "tolerance" -- which has been given a new and
twisted definition meaning only "tolerant of the party line."

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

Here is where modern liberalism has failed.


Modern liberalism has failed EVERYWHERE.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
My personal feelings about the matter is that any private organization
should be able to discriminate against any group that it wishes for any
reason.

I agree with you there. However:

* The BSA should not enjoy preferential treatment or be granted any sort
of government support. As a private organization, they should be
self-sufficient if they wish to discriminate.

* As a former scout myself, I look forward to a day when in good
conscience allow my own son to participate in the BSA. The BSA has a lot of
great things to offer. I will continue to be vocal in my desire for the BSA
to change their policy, for this reason. Will I ask the government to force
a change? No, absolutely not. But if the change happens from within, as a
result of pressure from without, I see nothing wrong with that.

In other words, the BSA should be permitted to do what they feel is best.
However, they should not be surprised when they receive social criticism.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
| "C J Campbell" wrote in message
| ...
| My personal feelings about the matter is that any private organization
| should be able to discriminate against any group that it wishes for any
| reason.
|
| I agree with you there. However:
|
| * The BSA should not enjoy preferential treatment or be granted any
sort
| of government support. As a private organization, they should be
| self-sufficient if they wish to discriminate.
|

I really get tired of that canard. The Boy Scouts do not get any more
government support than any other private organization. Yes, they are
allowed to meet in public schools, just like the gay rights groups -- many
of whom do not allow straight members. Yes, they are allowed to use the
public parks, drive on the public roads, and even breathe the public air,
despite the fact that I have heard from numerous activists who do not think
any of these things should be allowed.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
| "C J Campbell" wrote in message
| ...
| My personal feelings about the matter is that any private organization
| should be able to discriminate against any group that it wishes for
any
| reason.
|
| I agree with you there. However:
|
| * The BSA should not enjoy preferential treatment or be granted any
sort
| of government support. As a private organization, they should be
| self-sufficient if they wish to discriminate.
|

I really get tired of that canard. The Boy Scouts do not get any more
government support than any other private organization. Yes, they are
allowed to meet in public schools, just like the gay rights groups -- many
of whom do not allow straight members.

Again, CJ, you are just inventing claims about your opponents from thin air,
so reflexively that you don't even notice that you're doing it.

Please cite even *one* example *anywhere* of a gay rights group meeting in
public schools and not allowing straight members. I doubt you can even find
a completely *private* gay rights group anywhere that doesn't allow straight
members.

Yes, they are allowed to use the
public parks, drive on the public roads, and even breathe the public air,
despite the fact that I have heard from numerous activists who do not
think
any of these things should be allowed.

This is beyond ludicrous. Apparently these activists confide in you their
secret intentions that they do not reveal anywhere else, or else you would
be able to find at least one documented instance of activists who oppose
Scouts' use of public parks or roads.

Back in the real world, CJ, groups like the ACLU that are at the forefront
of the gay rights movement are also the most adamantly in *support* of the
free-speech rights of those they disagree with, such as when the ACLU
defends the rights of Nazis to march in the streets of Skokie.

--Gary

Well, Gary, you can call me a liar if you wish, but in fact gay rights
activists have posted their opinion on rec.scouting.usa and
rec.scouting.issues that BSA should not be allowed to use public facilities,
including parks and roads, because to do so constitutes a government subsidy
of a discriminatory group.

You can fantasize all you want, but your refusal to accept the facts does
not change them.

* The BSA should not enjoy preferential treatment or be granted any
sort
of government support. As a private organization, they should be
self-sufficient if they wish to discriminate.

This argument was used against the Scouts here in Iowa City, and has
resulted in them being charged the "corporate rate" for using the schools
when they want to hold a meeting or function. Of course, this price is
impossibly high, and has resulted in the Scouts being driven out of the
schools.

Strangely enough, the Scouts presented a cost-benefit analysis to the School
Board during the debate, proving that for every penny the City "spent" on
the Scouts (by letting them use the schools for cheap) they received back
five-fold in donated work, landscaping done for "Eagle Scout" projects, etc.
The city actually *profited* from the Scouts, because they did work that the
school district would otherwise have to buy.

This argument did not sway the gay community, and the Scouts were
effectively banned.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:%U90b.183507$uu5.35115@sccrnsc04...

This argument was used against the Scouts here in Iowa City, and has
resulted in them being charged the "corporate rate" for using the schools
when they want to hold a meeting or function. Of course, this price is
impossibly high, and has resulted in the Scouts being driven out of the
schools.

Strangely enough, the Scouts presented a cost-benefit analysis to the
School
Board during the debate, proving that for every penny the City "spent" on
the Scouts (by letting them use the schools for cheap) they received back
five-fold in donated work, landscaping done for "Eagle Scout" projects,
etc.
The city actually *profited* from the Scouts, because they did work that
the
school district would otherwise have to buy.

This argument did not sway the gay community, and the Scouts were
effectively banned.


Cogent argument will never sway the gay community.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:%U90b.183507$uu5.35115@sccrnsc04...

This argument was used against the Scouts here in Iowa City, and has
resulted in them being charged the "corporate rate" for using the
schools
when they want to hold a meeting or function. Of course, this price is
impossibly high, and has resulted in the Scouts being driven out of the
schools.

Strangely enough, the Scouts presented a cost-benefit analysis to the
School
Board during the debate, proving that for every penny the City "spent"
on
the Scouts (by letting them use the schools for cheap) they received
back
five-fold in donated work, landscaping done for "Eagle Scout" projects,
etc.
The city actually *profited* from the Scouts, because they did work that
the
school district would otherwise have to buy.

This argument did not sway the gay community, and the Scouts were
effectively banned.


Cogent argument will never sway the gay community.

What a hoot McNicoll. I doubt you even know the definition of cogent. It
is not a valid, forceful, reasoned, cogent argument to say that a
discriminatory group (and the BSA is by admission) should be accorded the
discount rate use of public buildings because they do good deeds for the
people holding the reservations book. It may be fact, but it isn't a sound
argument. If it were, the gays would be out there planting trees and
flowers like crazy and demanding the same benefits. In fact though, as far
as I know, they just demand the same treatment based on legalities.

JB

P.S. I just casually wandered into this thread and found it interesting, if
grossly OT. I have to say though, that for someone with some obvious, at
least to me, intelligence, you've done the best job here of all the posters
of posting inane, shallow, childish responses. For God's sake man, try to
do better. LOL

"Jim Baker" wrote in message
et...

What a hoot McNicoll. I doubt you even know the definition of cogent. It
is not a valid, forceful, reasoned, cogent argument to say that a
discriminatory group (and the BSA is by admission) should be accorded the
discount rate use of public buildings because they do good deeds for the
people holding the reservations book. It may be fact, but it isn't a
sound
argument. If it were, the gays would be out there planting trees and
flowers like crazy and demanding the same benefits. In fact though, as
far
as I know, they just demand the same treatment based on legalities.


I don't believe I've posted anything at all about the BSA or any similar
group.



P.S. I just casually wandered into this thread and found it interesting,
if
grossly OT. I have to say though, that for someone with some obvious, at
least to me, intelligence, you've done the best job here of all the
posters
of posting inane, shallow, childish responses. For God's sake man, try to
do better. LOL


Example?