About those anti-aviatoin newsgroups

Jay Honeck wrote:

Would you feel the same way if the BSA had a no blacks or no Jews policy
rather
than a no gays policy?

Well, Margy, if you are you asking if I would be upset that the Scouts were
banned from the schools for hypothetically banning Jewish and black members,
the answer is no. In your example, the Scouts (or any other group) would
quite deservedly have earned the wrath of the School Board and the Civil
Rights community by arbitrarily banning members based on skin color or
religion.

So it's just a matter of which bigotry you agree with. If the group won't let
in Blacks they are bad, if they won't let in Jews they are bad, if they won't
let in gay people they are ok? What about Gypsies? Catholics?

Margy

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
| "C J Campbell" wrote in message
| ...
| My personal feelings about the matter is that any private organization
| should be able to discriminate against any group that it wishes for any
| reason.
|
| I agree with you there. However:
|
| * The BSA should not enjoy preferential treatment or be granted any
sort
| of government support. As a private organization, they should be
| self-sufficient if they wish to discriminate.
|
| * As a former scout myself, I look forward to a day when in good
| conscience allow my own son to participate in the BSA.

You were able to participate in good conscience when you were younger, but
the BSA's policies have not changed. Instead of trying to force your views
on the Boy Scouts, why not help found another organization that espouses
what you believe?

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
You were able to participate in good conscience when you were younger

Out of pure ignorance, I assure you.

but the BSA's policies have not changed.

Sorry? You said earlier that the BSA doesn't want gays because they are
concerned that pedophiles would be a problem. However, when I was in the
Scouts, no one ever talked about pedophiles. It just wasn't anything anyone
worried about.

If the BSA's policies have not changed, they sure were nearly as concerned
about following them to the letter when I was a Scout as they are now.

Instead of trying to force your views on the Boy Scouts

What makes you think I'm trying to force my views on the Boy Scouts? Do you
understand the difference in meaning between the word "force" and the word
"persuade"?

why not help found another organization that espouses what you believe?

Even if I had the time and motivation to do so, I would never live to see a
new organization achieve what the BSA has achieved in terms of public
recognizance and acceptance. On the other hand, I genuinely believe that
the BSA *will* eventually modify their policies. The anti-gay attitude, in
the BSA and in society in general, will be a VERY long time before it goes
away 100%. Heck, we're still trying to get rid of racism.

But that attitude WILL eventually go away, and while there will be
stragglers for a long time, society in general (and, I believe, the Boy
Scouts) will no longer be anti-gay sooner rather than later. I feel it's a
lot more productive to try to help an existing organization come into the
modern era than to reinvent the wheel. Force them? No, not at all. But
education and persuasion goes a long way.

Pete

I refuse to support United Way and any other organization who
discriminates against the BSA.

Saw this year where UW did not meet their quota G

Won't meet if I have anything to say about it.

Big John


On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 11:28:17 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
My personal feelings about the matter is that any private organization
should be able to discriminate against any group that it wishes for any
reason.

I agree with you there. However:

* The BSA should not enjoy preferential treatment or be granted any sort
of government support. As a private organization, they should be
self-sufficient if they wish to discriminate.

* As a former scout myself, I look forward to a day when in good
conscience allow my own son to participate in the BSA. The BSA has a lot of
great things to offer. I will continue to be vocal in my desire for the BSA
to change their policy, for this reason. Will I ask the government to force
a change? No, absolutely not. But if the change happens from within, as a
result of pressure from without, I see nothing wrong with that.

In other words, the BSA should be permitted to do what they feel is best.
However, they should not be surprised when they receive social criticism.

Pete

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:53:10 -0500, Big John
wrote:

I refuse to support United Way and any other organization who
discriminates against the BSA.

The feeling is mutual in places, apparantly. Here in Portland Oregon
the BSA Councils no longer receive UW funding.

Pity, too. The BSA was one of the founding organizations behind the
United Way.

Rob

As I read this thread it seems that Gays do not check their mags at
the same RPM as Straights? (on thread)

Before the posters come to blows, I'd suggest the thread be moved to a
'gay' site where it can be argued to eternity.


Big John.


On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 11:28:17 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
My personal feelings about the matter is that any private organization
should be able to discriminate against any group that it wishes for any
reason.

I agree with you there. However:

* The BSA should not enjoy preferential treatment or be granted any sort
of government support. As a private organization, they should be
self-sufficient if they wish to discriminate.

* As a former scout myself, I look forward to a day when in good
conscience allow my own son to participate in the BSA. The BSA has a lot of
great things to offer. I will continue to be vocal in my desire for the BSA
to change their policy, for this reason. Will I ask the government to force
a change? No, absolutely not. But if the change happens from within, as a
result of pressure from without, I see nothing wrong with that.

In other words, the BSA should be permitted to do what they feel is best.
However, they should not be surprised when they receive social criticism.

Pete

Big John wrote:

As I read this thread it seems that Gays do not check their mags at
the same RPM as Straights? (on thread)

Before the posters come to blows, I'd suggest the thread be moved to a
'gay' site where it can be argued to eternity.

But we aren't gay, we are straight.

Margy

Margy

But you are attracting Gays and the tenor of the posts is changing.
None of the posts now have anything to do with aviation or the
aircraft noise factor thread it started out about.

I do a lot of posting off thread but 'most' of these posts are about
my life with heavy iron and places where I flew and the surroundings,
etc. A few, like this one, could be considered a "net nanny" post I
guess, which is not good. I therefore apologize before I get taken to
the cleaners. G

Big John


On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:20:29 -0400, Margy Natalie
wrote:



Big John wrote:

As I read this thread it seems that Gays do not check their mags at
the same RPM as Straights? (on thread)

Before the posters come to blows, I'd suggest the thread be moved to a
'gay' site where it can be argued to eternity.

But we aren't gay, we are straight.

Margy

"Big John" wrote in message
...
Margy

But you are attracting Gays

Yep, Margy's just busing us in from everywhere.

--Gary

Gary

No way can you play the race card.

Big John


On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:15:49 GMT, "Gary L. Drescher"
wrote:

"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
Margy

But you are attracting Gays

Yep, Margy's just busing us in from everywhere.

--Gary