Control input during loop

220 and 270?!?! Criminy, what are you flying? The only thing I can think
of is what one person said about being past the trimmed airspeed of the
rudder, which is probably trimmed for no yaw at 220 or thereabouts. I don't
think it's to do with prop effects as this is backwards from what your prop
would do. How many Gs do you pull to start your loop?

Shawn
Pitts S-1D G-BKVP
"MLenoch" wrote in message
...
"Roger Tracy"

Because of the speed? Is this occuring at faster than normal cruise? I
don't do aerobatics .. but will notice the ball slipping a little to the
left on my Tiger if I get the speed way up over cruise in a descent.
How much angle is built into the vertical stabilizer?


Cruise is 220 kts and loop entry is at 270 kts. The left rudder is
required
only when G-pull is initiated, but not during the dive. The vertical stab
has
a few degrees, not sure of the exact number.
VL

In article ,
"ShawnD2112" wrote:

220 and 270?!?! Criminy, what are you flying? The only thing I can think
of is what one person said about being past the trimmed airspeed of the
rudder, which is probably trimmed for no yaw at 220 or thereabouts. I don't
think it's to do with prop effects as this is backwards from what your prop
would do. How many Gs do you pull to start your loop?

You pitch down you yaw left, just like raising the tail during takeoff,
a pitch up should give some yaw to the right due to precession.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

220 and 270?!?! Criminy, what are you flying?

Not sure what he's flying now, but the last time I saw Mr. Lenoch fly, he
was in a P-51D Mustang.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Wouldn't he kinda know what the inputs for a loop were if he were flying a
Mustang? Or at least have a more qualified contact to ask than a random
shot in a newsgroup?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:kzumb.24688$Tr4.49151@attbi_s03...
220 and 270?!?! Criminy, what are you flying?

Not sure what he's flying now, but the last time I saw Mr. Lenoch fly, he
was in a P-51D Mustang.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Wouldn't he kinda know what the inputs for a loop were if he were flying a
Mustang? Or at least have a more qualified contact to ask than a random
shot in a newsgroup?

Hey -- who you callin' "random"?

We's experts here, doncha know? :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
Wouldn't he kinda know what the inputs for a loop were if he were flying a
Mustang?

You need to read more closely. He knows what the inputs are. He's asking
WHY he needs to use them.

Or at least have a more qualified contact to ask than a random
shot in a newsgroup?

That applies to pretty much every question ever posed here. What's your
point?

Pete

.. He knows what the inputs are. He's asking
WHY he needs to use them.


Thanks Peter.................You'd think after over 2000 hours in the bird, I'd
know............but then ask my wife, she knows better than myself sometimes
(rimshot!).
VL

Right. Sorry. My mistake. I need to read more closely next time. In the
Pitts, I can comment. I'm totally out of my depth with a Mustang. :-)

Shawn
"MLenoch" wrote in message
...
. He knows what the inputs are. He's asking
WHY he needs to use them.


Thanks Peter.................You'd think after over 2000 hours in the
bird, I'd
know............but then ask my wife, she knows better than myself
sometimes
(rimshot!).
VL

Let me throw a dog in this fight )

For example in the P-51. You are trimmed up for cruise and decide to
do a loop. You drop the nose and pick up air speed. If you were
trimmed for straight an level flight then as you pick up A/S you need
to put in left rudder to keep the ball centered.

As you pull up and airspeed bleeds off, you then relax the left rudder
and put in right rudder to counteract the engine torque at the lower
A/S keeping the ball centered.

This normally is an automatic use of rudders and you don't have to
think right or left rudder, just use the rudders to keep the ball
centered.

The amount of rudder used in a P-51 with the long nose and high power,
is more than you would use in a Cessna or Piper of course but same use
of controls is required.

In the "Spam Can", always flew the bird in a coordinated manner where
I wanted it to go and never thought about the control position needed
to make it do what I wanted.

If you let the ball get out of center and pulled high "G's", then the
bird would snap pretty easy (and quick).

And a nice day to all

Big John


On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:02:17 +0100, "ShawnD2112"
wrote:

Wouldn't he kinda know what the inputs for a loop were if he were flying a
Mustang? Or at least have a more qualified contact to ask than a random
shot in a newsgroup?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:kzumb.24688$Tr4.49151@attbi_s03...
220 and 270?!?! Criminy, what are you flying?

Not sure what he's flying now, but the last time I saw Mr. Lenoch fly, he
was in a P-51D Mustang.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article , Big John
wrote:

For example in the P-51. You are trimmed up for cruise and decide to
do a loop. You drop the nose and pick up air speed.

John, are you saying a stripped down civilian P-51 cannot pull up from
level flight into a vertical loop without first diving for additional
airspeed?