Testing your glide. Are people doing this?

In article ,
Really? How do you know that?

As a flight instructor who does a LOT of BFRs I find that the vast majority
of pilots perform emergency procedures, stalls, and other maneuvers quite
well.

That's good to know. On balance, do you see any difference between
owners and renters? Does the owner's extra familiarity with the plane
make any practical difference?

LOL, so you think owners make better pilots than renters just because
they own a plane. A fair number of owners fly very little, these lease
back their planes to FBOs so to keep it in the air.
I know this is semi-OT but renter v owner has nothing to do with being
a safe/good pilot. Most people are most familar with cruise because
that's where they spend most of their time during flights. But I would
say that ~50% of the pilots _I_ know (not a random or presentive sample)
go out and do stalls, T&G, slow flight, etc. And they're all renters

"'Vejita' S. Cousin" wrote in message
...
That's good to know. On balance, do you see any difference between
owners and renters? Does the owner's extra familiarity with the plane
make any practical difference?

LOL, so you think owners make better pilots than renters just because
they own a plane. A fair number of owners fly very little, these lease
back their planes to FBOs so to keep it in the air.

He asked a question. He did NOT make an assertion. He didn't say anything
about what he thinks.

But since you got all hot and bothered, I'll go ahead and point out that
I've learned FAR more about my airplane as an owner than I ever would have
as a renter. Being the person who oversees and pays for the maintenance
provides a MUCH better education with regards to aircraft systems than any
renter would get. That's important information that comes in handy if
anything should go wrong while flying (and before flying, for that matter).

As far as your claim that "a fair number of owners fly very little", I guess
you'll just have to define "a fair number". Certainly some owners do lease
back their aircraft and do not fly any more than the typical renter might.
However, that hardly characterizes the majority of owners. When speaking in
generalities (such as I assume David was), a minority -- even if it's a
large one -- isn't really all that relevant to the question.

Finally, the issue of whether a pilot is more familiar with an airplane is
significant, even for planes that are essentially the same. Over the years,
various controls and capabilities of the C172 (for example) have varied
somewhat. A person flying the same C172 (for example) all the time is going
to be much more familiar with where things are and how to react in a given
situation than someone who flies a variety of C172s and has to adjust for
the subtle differences in each airplane.

I know this is semi-OT but renter v owner has nothing to do with being
a safe/good pilot.

Nobody said it did. I'm guessing you don't own an airplane, but rather rent
one, given how primed you appear to be for inferring offensive where none
was stated or implied. Next time you think someone's pushed one of your hot
buttons, you might take a look around and see if anyone's standing anywhere
near it first, before flying off the handle.

A relative lack of familiarity does not imply that a pilot is neither safe
nor good. It simply is a relative lack of familiarity. It may or may not
translate into better piloting, but one cannot question the presence of that
difference in familiarity.

Pete

A person flying the same C172 (for example) all the time is going
to be much more familiar with where things are and how to react in a given
situation than someone who flies a variety of C172s and has to adjust for
the subtle differences in each airplane.


But would that same person be better equipped to handle a DIFFERENT 172 (for
example one he rents after travelling commercially)?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
But would that same person be better equipped to handle a DIFFERENT 172
(for
example one he rents after travelling commercially)?

I don't see why he would. But I also don't see how that's relevant to this
particular train of thought. CJ's original comment was specifically
regarding owners flying their own airplanes, and was in response to a person
claiming that "most people don't actually know how to fly THEIR airplanes"
(emphasis mine).

But I also don't see how that's relevant [...]
"most people don't actually know how to fly THEIR airplanes"
(emphasis mine).


I didn't take "their" to be that restrictive, and also maintain that flying a
variety of aircraft makes one more able to jump between them. There is an
implication in the quote that "most people don't know how to fly" (to some
standard being presented) and knowing one particular plane is only part of the
picture. One comes to rely on the charactaristics of "their particular plane"
and that may reduce safety outside the envelope.

Jose



--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
I didn't take "their" to be that restrictive

There can be no question that CJ's comment was with regards to airplane
owners. I simply referenced Shawn's post for context.

and also maintain that flying a
variety of aircraft makes one more able to jump between them.

That's an interesting theory, but not borne out by my own flying, nor those
that I have talked to who fly a variety of aircraft. When I spend time in
other aircraft (mostly C172s and C177s), my performance in my own airplane
as well as those other types suffers.

Likewise, the instructors I've asked about how they handle the variety of
aircraft they fly have told me that a major problem for them is that, while
they are perfectly safe in all of the aircraft they fly, they don't have the
finesse they'd like in any of them, because they're constantly switching
back and forth.

I can't prove that your theory is incorrect, but I doubt you could prove
that it's correct. I do know my own statistically insignificant experiences
argue against the theory.

There is an
implication in the quote that "most people don't know how to fly"

The quote is out of context and misrepresented. If you'd like to address a
different issue, that's fine, but your comments so far haven't been relevant
to CJ's original reply.

[...] One comes to rely on the charactaristics of "their particular
plane"
and that may reduce safety outside the envelope.

There's no doubt that a pilot who flies a plane with which they are
unfamiliar may well have inappropriate transfer from the plane with which
they ARE familiar. But that's not what is being discussed. The question
here is whether pilots know how to fly the plane with which they are
familiar.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in
:

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
I didn't take "their" to be that restrictive

There can be no question that CJ's comment was with regards to airplane
owners. I simply referenced Shawn's post for context.


OK, I guess I am in one of those moods...


CJ's comments, in context, and in their entirety, read as follows:

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
| My experience is that most people don't actually know how to fly their
| airplanes.

Really? How do you know that?

As a flight instructor who does a LOT of BFRs I find that the vast
majority
of pilots perform emergency procedures, stalls, and other maneuvers quite
well.

There is absolutely nothing in CJs comments that in any way, shape, or form
even IMPLIES owners. Even renters get BFRs.

The post which CJ quoted began as follows:

My experience is that most people don't actually know how to fly their
airplanes. They know how to get them off the ground, from Point A to
Point
B, but they never do touch and gos, they never go out and do stalls, and
they really don't know how their airplane performs in anything other than
the cruise. Personally, I enjoy simply controlling the machine.

It would seem to me that while it is possible that the point Shawn was
making was intended specifically for owners, it is equally plausible that
he intended to say, "My experience is that most people don't actually know
how to fly the airplanes they pilot."

Case in point, an earlier post in the thread by Montblack read as follows:


I wonder how many people have actually glided their planes (rentals or
otherwise) and so know what their real world glide range numbers will be -
from say, 6,000 ft AGL down to 3,000 ft AGL? Into the wind vs tailwind,
etc?

Here renters are specifically included (in an assumptive tonation) in the
term "their planes".

I suspect it is possible that Shawn did not expect either of us to analyze
his post as if it was a legal document, and simply used conversational
language to express his opinion. And in fact, the focus of his post seems
to be on the fact that he practices stalls and touch and goes and other
manuevers and enjoys learning the limits of the plane he flies (which,
based on other language later in the post, he seems to own).


OK. I am finished.

Teacherjh wrote:

I didn't take "their" to be that restrictive, and also maintain that flying a
variety of aircraft makes one more able to jump between them.

But as an owner, I don't have to be able to jump between them.

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the mud.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
| "Teacherjh" wrote in message
| ...
| But would that same person be better equipped to handle a DIFFERENT 172
| (for
| example one he rents after travelling commercially)?
|
| I don't see why he would. But I also don't see how that's relevant to
this
| particular train of thought. CJ's original comment was specifically
| regarding owners flying their own airplanes,

Actually, I did not ask the question about owners. That was a reply to a
post that I made that did not talk about owners specifically.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
Actually, I did not ask the question about owners. That was a reply to a
post that I made that did not talk about owners specifically.

You're right...sorry for putting words in your mouth.