Full before landing checklist in the pattern?

I don't like situational instruction, where one action is required under one
set of circumstances and a different action is required under a different
set of circumstances. Teach one procedure that works all the time.

Bob Gardner

"BoDEAN" wrote in message
...
How many people do / teach doing a full before landing checklist when
doing pattern work? I do with my students, but other cfi's I work with
use a quick / abbreviated one for our Cessna 172/152

In article F9vqb.94384$ao4.279861@attbi_s51,
"Bob Gardner" wrote:

I don't like situational instruction, where one action is required under one
set of circumstances and a different action is required under a different
set of circumstances. Teach one procedure that works all the time.



There AIN'T no such thing! If you have an emergency, you're screwed
with that policy!





"BoDEAN" wrote in message
...
How many people do / teach doing a full before landing checklist when
doing pattern work? I do with my students, but other cfi's I work with
use a quick / abbreviated one for our Cessna 172/152

I've had my share of emergencies, Orval, in singles and twins, and I stand
by my comments.

Bob Gardner

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news ...
In article F9vqb.94384$ao4.279861@attbi_s51,
"Bob Gardner" wrote:

I don't like situational instruction, where one action is required under
one
set of circumstances and a different action is required under a
different
set of circumstances. Teach one procedure that works all the time.



There AIN'T no such thing! If you have an emergency, you're screwed
with that policy!





"BoDEAN" wrote in message
...
How many people do / teach doing a full before landing checklist when
doing pattern work? I do with my students, but other cfi's I work with
use a quick / abbreviated one for our Cessna 172/152

I don't like situational instruction, where one action is required under
one
set of circumstances and a different action is required under a
different
set of circumstances. Teach one procedure that works all the time.



There AIN'T no such thing! If you have an emergency, you're screwed
with that policy!

No! You're screwed when you DON'T follow pre-planned / pre-trained
procedures during an emergency.

In article ,
"Kiwi Jet Jock" wrote:

I don't like situational instruction, where one action is required under
one
set of circumstances and a different action is required under a
different
set of circumstances. Teach one procedure that works all the time.



There AIN'T no such thing! If you have an emergency, you're screwed
with that policy!

No! You're screwed when you DON'T follow pre-planned / pre-trained
procedures during an emergency.



You're screwed if the emergency lies outside your preplanned actions! If
you depend on rote learning while flying, you have no business in the
cockpit!

Checklists are fine, but are NOT the answer to everything! As I pointed
out earlier, having your nose buried in a checlist while in the traffic
pattern is not the smartest or safest use of your attention and eyesight.

Checklists are fine, but are NOT the answer to everything! As I pointed
out earlier, having your nose buried in a checlist while in the traffic
pattern is not the smartest or safest use of your attention and eyesight.

The 'answer to everything' is training, and then following those learned
procedures - that's why we spend hundreds of hours in simulators before
being let loose on heavy metal. Checklists are an essential part of that
cockpit discipline - as is 'Aviate - Navigate - Communicate'.

What drops so many pilots in the proverbial brown stuff is the lack of
cockpit discipline - a belief that it "won't happen to them" and if it does
then "I'll sort it out at the time". As an example, a trained, professional
pilot (flying heavy metal) - following training & procedures - would not
attempt to abort a takeoff after V1 if, for example, they get an engine fire
indication - The initial actions of those NOT following procedures is to let
all of their attention focus on the 'problem' - panic - and take a
psudo-random course of action (eg trying to abort - or shutting down the
wrong engine) that gets everyone killed.

At an elementary level pilots often "get away" with not following formalised
procedures in light single-engine GA aircraft (although it still kills far
to many people each and every year) - but the lack of discipline sets you up
to fail as you progress to higher performance aircraft - too many GA pilots
cut too many corners (starting with a lack of cockpit discipline) - these
bad habits stay with them as they accumulate more and more hours in bigger
and faster aircraft - until one day a few peripheral circumstances change
and they get caught with their "proverbial pants down." As humans we all
make mistakes and we forget things - especially when the pressure is on - by
using checklists in many areas of aviation we ensure that we DON'T forget
things - things like lowering the gear in a retractable - things like
terminating flightplans - Things like feathering a prop on a dead engine.
When was the last time someone who flies using a checklist landed a
retractable with the gear up?

This 'nose buried in a checklist / lack of attention' argument is a crock -
as pilots being able to effectively task-switch is a requirement that comes
with being PIC. I can complete a 9 point pre-landing checklist in a high
performance light twin in under 12 seconds @ 140 knots downwind - whilst
keeping an effective lookout - and occasionally talking to the tower in the
middle of it. Once the item is read, most of the items are carried out with
eyes looking outside the cockpit - you shouldn't have to look to identify
parking brake - mixtures - pitch - aux pumps - autopilot disconnect etc. If
you can't perform comfortably at this level whilst maintaining your lookout
and situational awareness then you shouldn't be in the left hand seat.

There is no emergency that can't be made worse by not following procedures.
Get used to using checklists. Everytime.