JFK

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:42:03 GMT, Philip Sondericker
wrote:

Berliner refers to a resident
of Berlin, just as a Hamburger is a denizen of Hamburg and a Frankfurter
resides in Frankfurt. Generally, these words are only funny to non-Germans
who haven't the slightest idea what they're talking about.

Germans simply don't form the sentence that way. The article "ein" is
superfluous in the context of identifying with a group.

Ich bin Sizilianerin.
Er ist Schweizer.
Sie sind Oesterreicher.

That's conversational German. Using the indefinite article would just
never come up in a spoken conversation, and I have participated in a
*lot* of German conversations.

You might hear the *definite* article from time to time, but it will
almost always come with a name, in the case of self-identification.

"Ich bin der Berliner, John Kennedy", and so forth.

(In the case of third person pejorative references you might not get a
name. "Er ist der Schwule da drueben," and so forth.)

Hearing "Ich bin ein Schweizer" or anything like that is akin to
hearing a non English speaker say "I go today to get milk at store."
The English speaker would use gerunds.

Rob, who knows what he's talking about

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

Robert Perkins wrote:

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:42:03 GMT, Philip Sondericker
wrote:


Berliner refers to a resident
of Berlin, just as a Hamburger is a denizen of Hamburg and a Frankfurter
resides in Frankfurt. Generally, these words are only funny to non-Germans
who haven't the slightest idea what they're talking about.


Germans simply don't form the sentence that way. The article "ein" is
superfluous in the context of identifying with a group.

Ich bin Sizilianerin.
Er ist Schweizer.
Sie sind Oesterreicher.

That's conversational German. Using the indefinite article would just
never come up in a spoken conversation, and I have participated in a
*lot* of German conversations.

You might hear the *definite* article from time to time, but it will
almost always come with a name, in the case of self-identification.

"Ich bin der Berliner, John Kennedy", and so forth.

True, but other situations where the article will appear is for emphasis
and when the term is not meant literally. For example, if I were a
politician, I would identify myself saying "Ich bin Politiker" but if
someone felt that I was acting in a politically motivated way they might
well say "Da bisst du ja ein Politiker." The latter phrase could be
translated as "You're acting like a politician." In Kennedy's case, either
of these could be justification for the inclusion of the article since he
was both emphasizing the unique nature of Berliners at the time and he
certainly wasn't speaking literally.

In any event, the phrasing is clearly not due to Kennedy directly but to
Robert Lochner, his interpreter who was educated in Berlin. And Kennedy
rehearsed the line with Willy Brandt (then Berlin mayor) just prior to his
speech. Apparently Willy saw nothing wrong with the phrasing. See:
http://clk.about.com/?zi=1/XJ&sdn=urbanlegends&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities. com%2F%7Enewgeneration%2Fberliner.htm

in article , Robert Perkins at
wrote on 11/16/03 7:31 PM:



Hearing "Ich bin ein Schweizer" or anything like that is akin to
hearing a non English speaker say "I go today to get milk at store."
The English speaker would use gerunds.


But you'd still know what that non-English speaker was talking about,
wouldn't you? That's why all these posts arguing about whether or not
Kennedy really said "jelly donut" are so silly. Everybody KNEW what he
meant.

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:14:12 GMT, Philip Sondericker
wrote:

But you'd still know what that non-English speaker was talking about,
wouldn't you? That's why all these posts arguing about whether or not
Kennedy really said "jelly donut" are so silly. Everybody KNEW what he
meant.

Yeah. I said as much in a followup post. Suffice to say I paid a visit
to the "W.C." after typing much of this.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card