Bible-beater pilots

"Ian" wrote in message


It's clear you and your family have no moral guidance.
...there are people there like you who need to hear it.
...Your rejection of the message does not
diminish its truth. ...So far, you are lost. If
you think your own inner self, your conscience, your innate sense of
right and wrong should be your guide, if you think its enough just to
be a good person, then you've got it all backwards.

Isn't it time you quit
worshipping the Pathfinder parked out back and sought out some real
meaning to why you're here ? Some real guidance in your life ?
...The only difference
is in how long it takes each of us to figure it out and make the
single most important decision your entire life. To accept Jesus or
reject him.

No moral guidance? Needs to hear the message? Truth? Lost? Got it
backwards? Worshiping the plane? Real guidance? Most important decision?


Wow.

Just out of curiosity: What puts you in a position to judge his moral
guidance (or lack thereof)? I suppose you'll say that Christian morality is
the only correct morality, right?

Why does he *need* to hear the message? I suppose you like the idea of
email spam, too. After all, one has only to determine that we *need* to
hear the message to make it acceptable, right?

How do you account for the billions of "souls" who are not Christian yet
seem to live good lives? (By "good" I mean doing things that Christians
claim to do like charity, treating others with respect, living by their
version of the Ten Commandments.)

Tell me again how many people have died in wars based on nothing but
religion?

Christianity isn't the only game in town - and the other leagues have some
pretty solid players, too.

--
Lenny Toulson

Lenny,

Tell me again how many people have died in wars based on nothing but
religion?


That was the case in the vast majority of wars, I would say. Of course,
in most, religion was just a cover for power mongering - but that seems
to be common in religion anyway.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:00:56 +0100, Thomas Borchert
wrote:

That was the case in the vast majority of wars, I would say. Of course,
in most, religion was just a cover for power mongering - but that seems
to be common in religion anyway.

Given that power mongering exists with or without religion (unless the
last 100 years of secular democracies descending into fascist or
communist dictatorships is supposed to be set aside?), it seems
particularly fallacious to suppose that because many religions contain
power mongerers, that it is the cause of the belief system that they
monger power.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

Robert,

that it is the cause of the belief system that they
monger power.


I can't see that I said that.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:39:38 +0100, Thomas Borchert
wrote:

that it is the cause of the belief system that they
monger power.


I can't see that I said that.

You didn't. It's either a strawman (my bad) or (IME) the place people
who don't like churches usually go next.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

In article ,
that it is the cause of the belief system that they
monger power.

I can't see that I said that.

You didn't. It's either a strawman (my bad) or (IME) the place people
who don't like churches usually go next.

To my mind it's not so much that power corrupts, and absolute power
corrupts absolutely. So much as corrupt people do corrupt things; and
corrupt people with power do really corrupt things. Religion has long
been (one way) for people to gain power. A large number of whom have been
corrupt. There are any number of secular bad guys out there as well.

I think the main difference is that the secular power hungry guys do not
normally claim to be ethical/moral. Myself (and others I'm told) have
problems when a group claims to stand for moral principles not only
because they are good and just, but also the word/law of god. Then lie,
cheat and steal while the cover up the crimes of others, for example child
molestation and the catholic church). The actually number of pedophiles
within the church does no difference statistically from the general
population. However the general population does not claim to hold itself
to a high moral standard either.

So it's not so much that some of us 'don't like churches' as we don't like
the hypocrisy rampant in many religions. Then again that might just be me

"Robert Perkins" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:00:56 +0100, Thomas Borchert
wrote:

That was the case in the vast majority of wars, I would say. Of course,
in most, religion was just a cover for power mongering - but that seems
to be common in religion anyway.

Given that power mongering exists with or without religion (unless the
last 100 years of secular democracies descending into fascist or
communist dictatorships is supposed to be set aside?), it seems
particularly fallacious to suppose that because many religions contain
power mongerers, that it is the cause of the belief system that they
monger power.

Rob


Bulls*it. The belief system is all about power whether it is religious or
secular, Christian or Communist. You have one group of people who KNOW they
are right and therefore KNOW they have the authority because they are right
to try and impose their beliefs on others.

Ben Dover wrote:

Bulls*it. The belief system is all about power whether it is religious or
secular, Christian or Communist. You have one group of people who KNOW
they are right and therefore KNOW they have the authority because they are
right to try and impose their beliefs on others.

What astounds me is that, at the same time as we deal with religious zealots
elsewhere in the world, our own zealots are trying to penalize couples
eager to commit to a life of togetherness and love in MA.

Why do most people not simply laugh these zealots off the stage?

- Andrew

Andrew,

Why do most people not simply laugh these zealots off the stage?


Because they're the administration? gd&r

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 06:54:32 GMT, "Lenny Toulson"
wrote:

Tell me again how many people have died in wars based on nothing but
religion?

People have died in wars based on nothing but human avarice, with
religion as the dressing to break down a person's natural inclination
not to kill for the first time.

Let's not go and blame religion when other factors, usually condemned
by religious belief systems, are more operative. To do so would be
insignificant cause fallacies. Fights and wars have broken out over
things other than religion, and no society goes to war for that reason
alone. It's too much work!

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card