cleared, then busted

"Tom S." wrote in message
...

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

I bet the first 35 years of my life on the Canadian system, and it
worked
pretty damn well.

You ever need dialysis? Ever wonder what you would do if medical
attention
was available (for the person of your choice) and that you could afford,
but
not allowed? Examples of this situation abound. Try to get a
non-emergency
MRI in Toronto within a year. Try to get dialysis (even just for fun).
What did you bet on? What was your ante?

When I tore my ACL last year, it was 12 days from injury to surgery (and
that includes about five days of being chicken**** before going to the
doctor). MRI, a bunch of other tests to make sure I wouldn't croak on the
operating table (EKG, blood work...).

I should have said "elective MRI". MRI was clinically indicated in your
case. Different animal.

moo

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, "Happy Dog" said:
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
I bet the first 35 years of my life on the Canadian system, and it
worked
pretty damn well.

You ever need dialysis? Ever wonder what you would do if medical
attention
was available (for the person of your choice) and that you could afford,
but
not allowed? Examples of this situation abound. Try to get a
non-emergency
MRI in Toronto within a year. Try to get dialysis (even just for fun).
What did you bet on? What was your ante?

My father had a heart attack a few years ago, near Toronto.

That's hardly a non-emergency condition.

He got MRIs,
CAT scans, and surgery, all within a few hours. He was operated on by a
world famous cardiac surgeon who has been profiled on the US science show
"NOVA". Now he gets drugs that would cost thousands of dollars a week.

Surgery within hours, eh? And drugs costing thousands per week? For years?
Can you give us some more details on his condition?

So I anted my father's life, and won.

Compare and contrast with the US system, where my doctor has twice
referred me to chronic pain specialists only to have the insurance company
turn me down. I've switched insurance companies, but they're all in
collusion to treat chronic pain sufferers as nothing but whiners. Oh, and
they wouldn't pay to treat the depression caused by the chronic pain,
either. They're all a bunch of ****ing *******s, and they have the entire
US political system in their pockets because politics runs on money, and
they've made plenty by denying proper medical care even to those lucky
enough to supposedly have coverage.

Got news for you. You wouldn't fare much better in Canada.
hd

("Tom S." wrote)
I got'ta think the Hamilton duel would pull a 20 share in the
overnights.

Yeah, but they'd ruin it with repeated slowmo replays, action diagrams,
endless inane commentary...

Darn it. There's that "inane" word again! It's stalking me.

--
Montblack

"Robert Perkins" wrote in message
...

The *care* is demonstrably better. Fewer lines, etc. The *drug*
situation is out of control, IMO; the drug companies shifted the cost
of research onto United States customers (and others), since Canada
negotiated its way onto some good longterm prices for medicine.


Bingo. There are those who would have the US follow Canada along that path.
Who would US drug companies then shift the cost of research onto?

The surest way to increase the cost of anything is to make it "free".

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

So when you have a medical condition, you tell people it cost the sum
total that you and your employer have paid for your medical insurance
through your entire lifetime? No, you count how much EXTRA you paid
because of that medical procedure, in copays, drugs, uncovered procedures,
prosthetics and other costs that you wouldn't have paid if you hadn't had
it.

In the case of my chronic pain, it's in the tens of thousands. In the
case of my dad's heart attack, it's zero.


You've missed the point. The most expensive health care is "free" health
care.

"Montblack" wrote in message
...
("Tom S." wrote)
I got'ta think the Hamilton duel would pull a 20 share in the
overnights.

Yeah, but they'd ruin it with repeated slowmo replays, action diagrams,
endless inane commentary...

Darn it. There's that "inane" word again! It's stalking me.

Did I mention the inane half-time show?

in article , Ash Wyllie at wrote on
11/18/03 5:51 PM:

Philip Sondericker opined

in article , Wdtabor at
ackatyu wrote on 11/17/03 4:27 PM:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Zdaub.28610$Dw6.140203@attbi_s02...
Unbelievable.

What a screwed up mess.
--
Now you're catching on!


ANd some people want the government to run your health care.

Think about that.

This person has private health insurance companies run his health care, and
is currently overwhelmed by mountains of paperwork, staggering cost (which
rises by the month), the densest bureaucracy I've ever seen, and managerial
incompetence on an epic scale. I've never been one to say that the
government should run everything, but I'm genuinely wondering how they could
do any worse.

You might ask a veteran about government health care. Was the time to
treatment from the VA in a recent report 45 days, or 45 months? I can't
remember at the moment.

-ash
for assistance dial MYCROFTXXX


Then again, without government care, many veterans wouldn't receive any care
at all.

Philip Sondericker opined

in article , Ash Wyllie at wrote on
11/18/03 5:51 PM:

Philip Sondericker opined

in article , Wdtabor at
ackatyu wrote on 11/17/03 4:27 PM:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Zdaub.28610$Dw6.140203@attbi_s02...
Unbelievable.

What a screwed up mess.
--
Now you're catching on!


ANd some people want the government to run your health care.

Think about that.

This person has private health insurance companies run his health care,
and is currently overwhelmed by mountains of paperwork, staggering cost
(which rises by the month), the densest bureaucracy I've ever seen, and
managerial incompetence on an epic scale. I've never been one to say that
the government should run everything, but I'm genuinely wondering how they
could do any worse.

You might ask a veteran about government health care. Was the time to
treatment from the VA in a recent report 45 days, or 45 months? I can't
remember at the moment.

-ash
for assistance dial MYCROFTXXX


Then again, without government care, many veterans wouldn't receive any care
at all.

Or how about giving every veteran a free first dollar insurance policy good
for any hospital in the US?

-ash
for assistance dial MYCROFTXXX

Ash Wyllie wrote:

Or how about giving every veteran a free first dollar insurance policy good
for any hospital in the US?

Veteran's hospitals exist for several purposes, one of which is to maintain
a pool of medical staff readily available in case of war. Your proposal would
increase the costs of providing health care to veterans and make it impossible
for the military to rapidly expand its rear lines medical facilities.

George Patterson
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something that can
be learned no other way.

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 at 17:43:10 in message
, Dave
wrote:

Here in the UK healthcare is free at the point of delivery and is accessible
to everyone. I also have private health insurance provided by my employer
and that is for when I want non emergency treatment or treatment at my time
of choosing. For emergencies the National Health Service is as good as it
gets. For non urgent treatment like a hip replacement there could be a wait
of up to six months.

This seems a naive picture of the NHS. Some of the reality behind that
is some emergency wards backed up and people lying on trolleys waiting
for hours to get a bed in a hospital.

Many dedicated staff but frustrated by form filling and trying to meet
government imposed 'targets'. Dirty wards with a poor standard of
cleanliness. Treatments rationed in some cases by where you live as your
area budgets won't run to it. Some areas grossly overspent.

Long delays for complex surgery, particularly for the elderly. I know
several people who have spent their savings to get operations done
earlier so as to not to have to wait a year or even 2 years.

On the other hand there are of course many brilliant things that are
done as well, even with an organisation, the largest single employer in
Europe, that has more administrators than Doctors and Nurses.

The hybrid systems In Germany, France and Scandinavia seem to work
better.
--
David CL Francis