Bible-beater pilots

Jim Weir wrote in message . ..
Yes, an aviation newsgroup replete with newbies that haven't FREAKIN' LEARNED
HOW TO SNIP.


Jim





It seems I've hit a nerve. Please pray for my bottom-posting soul.

Chris W wrote:

Not all religions believe it is just a simple matter of accepting Jesus Christ.
Also, while many try and use the poor argument you described to "convert"
people, I think anyone that really understands scripture, knows that no argument
made by anyone can truly convert, if a person is to be converted, that is
something that must happen between them and God. All proselyting is for is to
introduce others to a believe, the conversion is then completely out of the
hands of the proselyter.

I respect and appreciate this point of view. Kind of a "lead the horse to
water but don't force him to drink" attitude. Problem is, in my experience
most proselytizers could care less how uncomfortable or miserable their
victims become during the discussion. Case in point being the lead article
of the "Bible-beater pilots" thread that preceeded this one. For many people
their religious beliefs are very personal and private. Those folks don't
appreciate being confronted in arbitrary contexts with threats of eternal
damnation if they don't accept some particular doctrine.

Jim Rosinski
N3825Q

John T wrote:

"Chris W" wrote in message


... there are
even some examples where they have failed because their marketing
wasn't enough to over come the worthless product they put together
when the competition in this case had a far superior product.

Was that supposed to support your argument?

No, that was just in there as a preemptive strike against those that
might argue that the reason all those other companies went out of
business is because MS has a better produce, they do not. There is the
rare exception where a quality product won out over the bully but I
think it was only because that product had been around for a long time
before MS tried to take them out, and their product had a large and
strong following as well as being of high quality.


--
Chris W

"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania

jim rosinski wrote:

Chris W wrote:

Not all religions believe it is just a simple matter of accepting Jesus Christ.
Also, while many try and use the poor argument you described to "convert"
people, I think anyone that really understands scripture, knows that no argument
made by anyone can truly convert, if a person is to be converted, that is
something that must happen between them and God. All proselyting is for is to
introduce others to a believe, the conversion is then completely out of the
hands of the proselyter.

I respect and appreciate this point of view. Kind of a "lead the horse to
water but don't force him to drink" attitude. Problem is, in my experience
most proselytizers could care less how uncomfortable or miserable their
victims become during the discussion. Case in point being the lead article
of the "Bible-beater pilots" thread that preceeded this one. For many people
their religious beliefs are very personal and private. Those folks don't
appreciate being confronted in arbitrary contexts with threats of eternal
damnation if they don't accept some particular doctrine.

The situation Jay described is very unfortunate and I can't see how a confrontation
like that could ever do any good. Religion is very personal, there are ways to
discuss and share religious beliefs with people you don't know very well, but only if
they are interested in discussing religion and then only in a non confrontational way,
I however rarely discuss it with people I don't know very well and then I always
listen to what they believe and simply tell how my beliefs are different and why I
believe the way I do. It's also unfortunate that even members of my religion can be
confrontational in their proselytizing, although I don't know of any as bad as what
Jay experienced. I think that if you run across someone that is searching for
something different or just curious, they will be willing to talk to you, but if their
not of that mindset, all the confrontation in the world isn't going to do any good,
unless you are a very manipulative person and the person you are talking to is easily
manipulated, in which case I think you have lost the whole point of sharing your
beliefs with others.




--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
N35° 20.492'
W97° 34.342'

"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania

John T wrote:

"Chris W" wrote in message
... there are
even some examples where they have failed because their marketing
wasn't enough to over come the worthless product they put together
when the competition in this case had a far superior product.

Was that supposed to support your argument?

No, that was just in there as a preemptive strike against those that
might argue that the reason all those other companies went out of
business is because MS has a better produce, they do not. There is the
rare exception where a quality product won out over the bully but I
think it was only because that product had been around for a long time
before MS tried to take them out, and their product had a large and
strong following as well as being of high quality.

MS bought Fox Software because it was a competitor to
Access. For a while, MS put the Access front-end on FoxPro but
in a short time, FoxPro went away. At the time, FoxPro was
far superior to Access. Don't know about it anymore.

MS tried to buy Intuit to get TurboTax but Intuit successfully
fought it off.

However, I got the impression that these guys, when confronted with an
in-flight emergency, might conceivably just sit back and wait for a
miracle.
THAT scares me.

Ironically, Darwinism will take care of that problem.

Sadly, I don't think so. Due to the advanced age of the pilot population,
most of us have already reproduced!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Larry,

But when a statement is made, whether it be truth or not, there is a choice - believe,
or do not believe


Uh, no. I mean, yes, you can chose to believe in truths - but it doesn't make any sense.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

L,

Equally acceptable: Propose a test that would prove any of them wrong.


Nope! Science isn't about proving negatives. It just doesn't make sense.

Give me one statement in science that you cannot prove. Give me one
statement that doesn't hold up to observation in reality. OTOH, the
religious "statements" made by the OP have no basis in observation, they
cannot be proven - they are, for all we know, pure conjecture.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Robert,

Pretty cool stuff, huh?

I knew you and I had something in common! :-)


The desire for good, free software? It was given to us by God. Who else
would work for free? ;-)


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

I never realized there were so many religion nuts in aviation. Amazing!