New Aviation Terminology

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
...

This may have been after they started rolling and the 1st officer tried
to question whether they had actually been cleared for take-off.

The big thing is that the words "take-off" can now not be used other
than "cleared for take-off". It may be the case that the Dutch captain
heard the words "cleared" and "take-off" and thought that was his cue
to go.


ATC never used the C-word. While PanAm was still taxiing on the runway KLM
was told, "OK. Standby for takeoff. I will call you." KLM then began
takeoff roll, ATC's next transmission was to PanAm:

ATC: "Roger. Pan Am 1736, report the runway clear."

Pan Am: "OK. Will report when we are clear."

ATC: "Thank you."

The KLM CVR recorded the copilot saying to the captain, "Did he not clear
the runway then?" "Oh yes" was the captain's reply as he continued his
takeoff.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
hlink.net...

ATC never used the C-word. While PanAm was still taxiing on the runway KLM
was told, "OK. Standby for takeoff. I will call you." KLM then began
takeoff roll, ATC's next transmission was to PanAm:

KLM: KLM 4805 is now ready for takeoff, and we're waiting for our ATC clearance.
TWR: KLM 8705 you are CLEARED to the papa beacon climb to and maintain
flight level 290 right turn after take-off proceed with heading 040 until
intercepting the 305 radial from Las Palmas VOR.
KLM: Roger sir, we're cleared to the Papa Beacon flight level 90, right turn out
050 until intercepting the 305 and we're now at take-off.
TWR: OK. Stand by for take-off, I will call you.
PAN: We're still taxiing down the runway, Clipper 1736

They did use the C word in delivering the IFR clearance. The CVR out of the
KLM shows the captain saying (in Dutch) "we're going" between the OK and
the Stand By instruction.

In article ,
Ron Natalie wrote:
TWR: OK. Stand by for take-off, I will call you.
PAN: We're still taxiing down the runway, Clipper 1736

They did use the C word in delivering the IFR clearance. The CVR out of the
KLM shows the captain saying (in Dutch) "we're going" between the OK and
the Stand By instruction.

And the transmission from PAN was stepped on.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

KLM: KLM 4805 is now ready for takeoff, and we're waiting for our ATC
clearance.
TWR: KLM 8705 you are CLEARED to the papa beacon climb to and maintain
flight level 290 right turn after take-off proceed with heading
040 until
intercepting the 305 radial from Las Palmas VOR.
KLM: Roger sir, we're cleared to the Papa Beacon flight level 90, right
turn out
050 until intercepting the 305 and we're now at take-off.
TWR: OK. Stand by for take-off, I will call you.
PAN: We're still taxiing down the runway, Clipper 1736

They did use the C word in delivering the IFR clearance. The CVR out of
the
KLM shows the captain saying (in Dutch) "we're going" between the OK and
the Stand By instruction.


Yes, they used the C-word in delivering the IFR clearance. How would they
issue an IFR clearance without using it? But Paul Sengupta wrote, "It may
be the case that the Dutch captain heard the words "cleared" and "take-off"
and thought that was his cue to go." ATC said "OK. Stand by for take-off,
I will call you." No C-word.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...
Yes, they used the C-word in delivering the IFR clearance. How would they
issue an IFR clearance without using it? But Paul Sengupta wrote, "It may
be the case that the Dutch captain heard the words "cleared" and
"take-off"
and thought that was his cue to go." ATC said "OK. Stand by for
take-off,
I will call you." No C-word.

It was the use of "take-off" that became the big issue.

What the KLM captain thought, we don't know.

Paul