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#1
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![]() After looking at all the harm religion has brought over mankind, how can one not fight it whereever it rears its ugly head - if one wants to remain a halfway moral being. I guess I should cancel my plans to deliver Thanksgiving dinner to the needy tomorrow. Since it's on behalf of my church. |
#2
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:46:31 -0500, "Trent Moorehead"
wrote: After looking at all the harm religion has brought over mankind, how can one not fight it whereever it rears its ugly head - if one wants to remain a halfway moral being. I guess I should cancel my plans to deliver Thanksgiving dinner to the needy tomorrow. Since it's on behalf of my church. I guess you better. After all, according to the atheists here, if your motivation is religious, you must not be moral. Rob |
#3
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I guess I should cancel my plans to deliver Thanksgiving dinner to the
needy tomorrow. Since it's on behalf of my church. I guess you better. After all, according to the atheists here, if your motivation is religious, you must not be moral. Jeez, I turn my attention away from this thread for a day or two, and look what happens! Talk about bitter dissension! I am thankful that there are those who deliver dinner to the needy -- whatever their motivation. If your religion commands you to help the hungry, house the homeless, and generally help humanity, I certainly will not argue with you. In fact, I thank you. However, I believe some posters have been trying to state the obvious, which is: Religion is a powerful force for both good and evil. Gullible people can be misled easily with the whole "fear of eternal damnation" threat. And it works the other way, too! Just look how many fools have been recruited by the fundamentalist, radical "Islamo-Fascists" in the Middle East! These dupes are lured into doing the ultimate evil, simply by having "eternity in paradise" promised to them. How many more children and innocents must be blown to smithereens so that this sick, parasitic version of Islam can flourish? Does anyone honestly think there would be suicide attacks WITHOUT religion assuring them of "eternal life"? THAT is the evil side of religion, ladies and gentlemen -- and it must be addressed in any serious discussion of religion. Anyhow, I only meant to comment on the rudeness of the religious zealots Mary and I ran into, and on the interesting way in which they were apparently able to self-justify their bizarre, unseemly behavior. I did not mean for this thread to pick on any particular religion, as these guys could just have easily have been Muslims, Hare Krishnas, or Believers in the Force. It's sad that this thread -- probably the longest I've ever seen -- ended up the way it did. I guess pilots are no different than the rest of the world in this regard... Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
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On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:32:07 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote: Jeez, I turn my attention away from this thread for a day or two, and look what happens! Talk about bitter dissension! Jay, it always comes to this when people start calling others' belief systems delusional and amoral. However, I believe some posters have been trying to state the obvious, which is: Religion is a powerful force for both good and evil. Gullible people can be misled easily with the whole "fear of eternal damnation" threat. They can be misled more easily through the basic peer pressure of "conform, or else we won't like you very much". Any middle school is a breeding ground for that. So was Russian Communism, for that matter. And it works the other way, too! Just look how many fools have been recruited by the fundamentalist, radical "Islamo-Fascists" in the Middle East! These dupes are lured into doing the ultimate evil, simply by having "eternity in paradise" promised to them. How many more children and innocents must be blown to smithereens so that this sick, parasitic version of Islam can flourish? Well, a couple of points of order: Islamofascism isn't flourishing; all the people under its boot are doing rather poorly, including (thanks in no small part to U.S. intervention) the leaders of the movement. I mean, think about it: Their hatred is so pure, that if they had the means, they'd have attacked a second time. So far the best they can do since 9/11/01 seems to be to sneak explosives in, disguised as innocent civilian traffic, and detonate it. Second, I don't think you'd have the suicide bombers without the desparate poverty of the common people in those areas, especially Palestine. But the same thugs who foment Islamofascism are largely responsible for keeping those people impoverished anyway, precisely because they take hopeless people and brainwash them with a very false interpretation of an otherwise peaceful religious belief system. Does anyone honestly think there would be suicide attacks WITHOUT religion assuring them of "eternal life"? Yes. A charismatic person reasoning under a humanistic belief system could tell hopeless people that their sacrifices are for the "good of Mankind", (or the "Good of the Fatherland", or "the Motherland") and that they must spend their lives to ensure it. Train 'em from age three or so, (heck, you could probably start at age seven and still pull it off) and you'll have your warriors. THAT is the evil side of religion, ladies and gentlemen -- and it must be addressed in any serious discussion of religion. How many suicide attackers have come out of Catholicism, Shinto, Buddhaism, any Protestant denomination, Sikh, Baha'i, Mormonism, any pagan system, or Scientology? I tell you three times: it's not the source of evil acts, even if it is the excuse. Anyhow, I only meant to comment on the rudeness of the religious zealots Yeah, I know. Again, the best approach to those types is to a) ignore them, or b) stand your ground and watch them make a public scene. The crowd will sympathize with *you*. It's sad that this thread -- probably the longest I've ever seen -- ended up the way it did. I guess pilots are no different than the rest of the world in this regard... It's said of the military that it's composed of a proportional sampling of all of America. I don't see why the private pilots in the United States or anyplace else would have outlooks any different than the rest of the population. Rob |
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("Rob Perkins" wrote)
snip How many suicide attackers have come out of Catholicism, Shinto, Buddhaism, any Protestant denomination, Sikh, Baha'i, Mormonism, any pagan system, or Scientology? Islamic nut-job. After I blow myself up, I will be accepted into (wherever) and have 70 virgins, bla, bla, bla. Catholic (IRA?) nut-job - Got a date with a virgin tonight. But for now, let's see - light fuse. Run like hell!! Yes, suicide bombers are especially unsettling. But in the end - Bombs is Bombs, especially to the young couple sitting at a cafe when said bombs go off. Scary bomb story. Friend went to London on an IcelandAir (winter) special. The group decide to meet, later, on a street corner (near the subway and the hotel and the pub) was why they picked that corner. Corner was well off the beaten path. Two days later a bomb blows up on that corner. I think it was the bomb that blew up on the bus - prematurely. They *all* belong to the Church of the Insane Nut-Jobs when bombs are involved. -- Montblack http://lumma.de/mt/archives/bart.gif |
#6
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Rob Perkins wrote:
Second, I don't think you'd have the suicide bombers without the desparate poverty of the common people in those areas, especially Palestine. But the same thugs who foment Islamofascism are largely responsible for keeping those people impoverished anyway, precisely because they take hopeless people and brainwash them with a very false interpretation of an otherwise peaceful religious belief system. Does anyone honestly think there would be suicide attacks WITHOUT religion assuring them of "eternal life"? Yes. A charismatic person reasoning under a humanistic belief system could tell hopeless people that their sacrifices are for the "good of Mankind", (or the "Good of the Fatherland", or "the Motherland") and that they must spend their lives to ensure it. Reading this suggests that you are making the assumption that the suicide bombers come from the down-trodden, hopeless members of Islamic society. I've seen several reports recently, though, that challenge this idea. I don't have any citations handy, but from what I remember it's the more affluent segment of the society that's providing the zealots. This actually makes sense, looking back at this countries own turbulent history. There were the occasional riots (like Watts) where most of the participants were from the "oppressed" segments of our society, but the real "outlaw" groups (SDS, Weather Underground, etc) were made up mostly of middle-class kids who felt the country was wrong, and that violence was the only answer. When you think about it, the down-trodden really don't have a lot of opportunity to become revolutionaries. They're too busy just trying to stay alive. They might go into crime, but they don't have the time, energy, or education to become revolutionaries. The middle class kids, though, have lots of free time to "think grand thoughts" since "mommy and daddy" are footing the bill. They also have the education to know that a successful revolution is possible, and to figure out how to carry if off. Rich Lemert |
#7
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:16:21 GMT, L Smith
wrote: Reading this suggests that you are making the assumption that the suicide bombers come from the down-trodden, hopeless members of Islamic society. Your ideas are thought-provoking; I was thinking specifically of the suiciders who come out of Palestine. As with many things, I could be wrong, but I don't think there's much of a middle class left there. As a counter idea, though, I'll offer that "hopeless people" doesn't necessarily mean "poor people", and that one can be downtrodden in ideas without suffering from material want. Rob |
#8
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In article , Rob Perkins
writes: Your ideas are thought-provoking; I was thinking specifically of the suiciders who come out of Palestine. As with many things, I could be wrong, but I don't think there's much of a middle class left there. The one of the recent suicide bombers in Israel was a successful pharmacist who had delayed his martydom until he had set aside enough to raise and educate his children. -- Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS PP-ASEL Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG |
#9
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![]() L Smith wrote: Reading this suggests that you are making the assumption that the suicide bombers come from the down-trodden, hopeless members of Islamic society. I've seen several reports recently, though, that challenge this idea. I don't have any citations handy, but from what I remember it's the more affluent segment of the society that's providing the zealots. From what I've read, it's the affluent segment that's providing the money. The lower classes still provide the bombers. The surviving family of a bomber then moves into the middle class. George Patterson Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting". |
#10
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On Thu, 27 Nov 2003, Rob Perkins wrote:
It's said of the military that it's composed of a proportional sampling of all of America. I don't see why the private pilots in the United States or anyplace else would have outlooks any different than the rest of the population. It's also worth remembering that UseNet is also a very international forum, and that most of the rest of the western world is significantly less religious that the USA. For example, Canada's (outgoing) Prime Minister has been leading for over eight years; it wasn't until about a year ago I finally learned he's Catholic. It really is less of an issue here, and in Europe. shrug In any case, it was an interesting thread. Brian. |
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