A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Bible-beater pilots



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 26th 03, 01:46 PM
Trent Moorehead
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


After looking at all the harm religion has brought over mankind, how can

one
not fight it whereever it rears its ugly head - if one wants to remain a
halfway moral being.


I guess I should cancel my plans to deliver Thanksgiving dinner to the needy
tomorrow. Since it's on behalf of my church.




  #2  
Old November 27th 03, 08:31 AM
Rob Perkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:46:31 -0500, "Trent Moorehead"
wrote:

After looking at all the harm religion has brought over mankind, how can

one
not fight it whereever it rears its ugly head - if one wants to remain a
halfway moral being.


I guess I should cancel my plans to deliver Thanksgiving dinner to the needy
tomorrow. Since it's on behalf of my church.


I guess you better. After all, according to the atheists here, if your
motivation is religious, you must not be moral.

Rob
  #3  
Old November 27th 03, 06:32 PM
Jay Honeck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I guess I should cancel my plans to deliver Thanksgiving dinner to the
needy
tomorrow. Since it's on behalf of my church.


I guess you better. After all, according to the atheists here, if your
motivation is religious, you must not be moral.


Jeez, I turn my attention away from this thread for a day or two, and look
what happens! Talk about bitter dissension!

I am thankful that there are those who deliver dinner to the needy --
whatever their motivation. If your religion commands you to help the
hungry, house the homeless, and generally help humanity, I certainly will
not argue with you. In fact, I thank you.

However, I believe some posters have been trying to state the obvious, which
is: Religion is a powerful force for both good and evil. Gullible people
can be misled easily with the whole "fear of eternal damnation" threat.

And it works the other way, too! Just look how many fools have been
recruited by the fundamentalist, radical "Islamo-Fascists" in the Middle
East! These dupes are lured into doing the ultimate evil, simply by having
"eternity in paradise" promised to them. How many more children and
innocents must be blown to smithereens so that this sick, parasitic version
of Islam can flourish?

Does anyone honestly think there would be suicide attacks WITHOUT religion
assuring them of "eternal life"? THAT is the evil side of religion, ladies
and gentlemen -- and it must be addressed in any serious discussion of
religion.

Anyhow, I only meant to comment on the rudeness of the religious zealots
Mary and I ran into, and on the interesting way in which they were
apparently able to self-justify their bizarre, unseemly behavior. I did not
mean for this thread to pick on any particular religion, as these guys could
just have easily have been Muslims, Hare Krishnas, or Believers in the
Force.

It's sad that this thread -- probably the longest I've ever seen -- ended up
the way it did. I guess pilots are no different than the rest of the world
in this regard...

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #4  
Old November 27th 03, 07:53 PM
Rob Perkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:32:07 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Jeez, I turn my attention away from this thread for a day or two, and look
what happens! Talk about bitter dissension!


Jay, it always comes to this when people start calling others' belief
systems delusional and amoral.

However, I believe some posters have been trying to state the obvious, which
is: Religion is a powerful force for both good and evil. Gullible people
can be misled easily with the whole "fear of eternal damnation" threat.


They can be misled more easily through the basic peer pressure of
"conform, or else we won't like you very much". Any middle school is a
breeding ground for that. So was Russian Communism, for that matter.

And it works the other way, too! Just look how many fools have been
recruited by the fundamentalist, radical "Islamo-Fascists" in the Middle
East! These dupes are lured into doing the ultimate evil, simply by having
"eternity in paradise" promised to them. How many more children and
innocents must be blown to smithereens so that this sick, parasitic version
of Islam can flourish?


Well, a couple of points of order: Islamofascism isn't flourishing;
all the people under its boot are doing rather poorly, including
(thanks in no small part to U.S. intervention) the leaders of the
movement.

I mean, think about it: Their hatred is so pure, that if they had the
means, they'd have attacked a second time. So far the best they can do
since 9/11/01 seems to be to sneak explosives in, disguised as
innocent civilian traffic, and detonate it.

Second, I don't think you'd have the suicide bombers without the
desparate poverty of the common people in those areas, especially
Palestine. But the same thugs who foment Islamofascism are largely
responsible for keeping those people impoverished anyway, precisely
because they take hopeless people and brainwash them with a very false
interpretation of an otherwise peaceful religious belief system.

Does anyone honestly think there would be suicide attacks WITHOUT religion
assuring them of "eternal life"?


Yes. A charismatic person reasoning under a humanistic belief system
could tell hopeless people that their sacrifices are for the "good of
Mankind", (or the "Good of the Fatherland", or "the Motherland") and
that they must spend their lives to ensure it.

Train 'em from age three or so, (heck, you could probably start at age
seven and still pull it off) and you'll have your warriors.

THAT is the evil side of religion, ladies
and gentlemen -- and it must be addressed in any serious discussion of
religion.


How many suicide attackers have come out of Catholicism, Shinto,
Buddhaism, any Protestant denomination, Sikh, Baha'i, Mormonism, any
pagan system, or Scientology?

I tell you three times: it's not the source of evil acts, even if it
is the excuse.

Anyhow, I only meant to comment on the rudeness of the religious zealots


Yeah, I know. Again, the best approach to those types is to a) ignore
them, or b) stand your ground and watch them make a public scene. The
crowd will sympathize with *you*.

It's sad that this thread -- probably the longest I've ever seen -- ended up
the way it did. I guess pilots are no different than the rest of the world
in this regard...


It's said of the military that it's composed of a proportional
sampling of all of America. I don't see why the private pilots in the
United States or anyplace else would have outlooks any different than
the rest of the population.

Rob
  #5  
Old November 27th 03, 09:01 PM
Montblack
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

("Rob Perkins" wrote)
snip
How many suicide attackers have come out of Catholicism, Shinto,
Buddhaism, any Protestant denomination, Sikh, Baha'i, Mormonism, any
pagan system, or Scientology?



Islamic nut-job. After I blow myself up, I will be accepted into (wherever)
and have 70 virgins, bla, bla, bla.

Catholic (IRA?) nut-job - Got a date with a virgin tonight. But for now,
let's see - light fuse. Run like hell!!


Yes, suicide bombers are especially unsettling. But in the end - Bombs is
Bombs, especially to the young couple sitting at a cafe when said bombs go
off.

Scary bomb story. Friend went to London on an IcelandAir (winter) special.
The group decide to meet, later, on a street corner (near the subway and the
hotel and the pub) was why they picked that corner. Corner was well off the
beaten path. Two days later a bomb blows up on that corner. I think it was
the bomb that blew up on the bus - prematurely.

They *all* belong to the Church of the Insane Nut-Jobs when bombs are
involved.

--
Montblack
http://lumma.de/mt/archives/bart.gif


  #6  
Old November 28th 03, 01:16 AM
L Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Rob Perkins wrote:

Second, I don't think you'd have the suicide bombers without the

desparate poverty of the common people in those areas, especially
Palestine. But the same thugs who foment Islamofascism are largely
responsible for keeping those people impoverished anyway, precisely
because they take hopeless people and brainwash them with a very false
interpretation of an otherwise peaceful religious belief system.



Does anyone honestly think there would be suicide attacks WITHOUT religion
assuring them of "eternal life"?



Yes. A charismatic person reasoning under a humanistic belief system
could tell hopeless people that their sacrifices are for the "good of
Mankind", (or the "Good of the Fatherland", or "the Motherland") and
that they must spend their lives to ensure it.

Reading this suggests that you are making the assumption that the
suicide bombers
come from the down-trodden, hopeless members of Islamic society. I've
seen several
reports recently, though, that challenge this idea. I don't have any
citations handy, but
from what I remember it's the more affluent segment of the society
that's providing the
zealots.

This actually makes sense, looking back at this countries own
turbulent history. There
were the occasional riots (like Watts) where most of the participants
were from the
"oppressed" segments of our society, but the real "outlaw" groups (SDS,
Weather
Underground, etc) were made up mostly of middle-class kids who felt the
country
was wrong, and that violence was the only answer.

When you think about it, the down-trodden really don't have a lot of
opportunity to
become revolutionaries. They're too busy just trying to stay alive. They
might go into
crime, but they don't have the time, energy, or education to become
revolutionaries.
The middle class kids, though, have lots of free time to "think grand
thoughts" since
"mommy and daddy" are footing the bill. They also have the education to
know that
a successful revolution is possible, and to figure out how to carry if off.

Rich Lemert

  #7  
Old November 28th 03, 03:42 AM
Rob Perkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:16:21 GMT, L Smith
wrote:

Reading this suggests that you are making the assumption that the
suicide bombers
come from the down-trodden, hopeless members of Islamic society.


Your ideas are thought-provoking; I was thinking specifically of the
suiciders who come out of Palestine. As with many things, I could be
wrong, but I don't think there's much of a middle class left there.

As a counter idea, though, I'll offer that "hopeless people" doesn't
necessarily mean "poor people", and that one can be downtrodden in
ideas without suffering from material want.

Rob
  #8  
Old November 28th 03, 01:14 PM
Wdtabor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , Rob Perkins
writes:


Your ideas are thought-provoking; I was thinking specifically of the
suiciders who come out of Palestine. As with many things, I could be
wrong, but I don't think there's much of a middle class left there.


The one of the recent suicide bombers in Israel was a successful pharmacist who
had delayed his martydom until he had set aside enough to raise and educate his
children.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG
  #9  
Old November 28th 03, 04:08 PM
G.R. Patterson III
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



L Smith wrote:

Reading this suggests that you are making the assumption that the
suicide bombers
come from the down-trodden, hopeless members of Islamic society. I've
seen several
reports recently, though, that challenge this idea. I don't have any
citations handy, but
from what I remember it's the more affluent segment of the society
that's providing the
zealots.


From what I've read, it's the affluent segment that's providing the money. The
lower classes still provide the bombers. The surviving family of a bomber then
moves into the middle class.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".
  #10  
Old November 28th 03, 04:05 AM
Brian Burger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003, Rob Perkins wrote:

It's said of the military that it's composed of a proportional
sampling of all of America. I don't see why the private pilots in the
United States or anyplace else would have outlooks any different than
the rest of the population.


It's also worth remembering that UseNet is also a very international
forum, and that most of the rest of the western world is significantly
less religious that the USA.

For example, Canada's (outgoing) Prime Minister has been leading for over
eight years; it wasn't until about a year ago I finally learned he's
Catholic. It really is less of an issue here, and in Europe.

shrug In any case, it was an interesting thread.

Brian.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AOPA Stall/Spin Study -- Stowell's Review (8,000 words) Rich Stowell Aerobatics 28 January 2nd 09 02:26 PM
Dover short pilots since vaccine order Roman Bystrianyk Naval Aviation 0 December 29th 04 12:47 AM
[OT] USA - TSA Obstructing Armed Pilots? No Spam! Military Aviation 120 January 27th 04 10:19 AM
[OT] USA - TSA Obstructing Armed Pilots? No Spam! General Aviation 3 December 23rd 03 08:53 PM
AOPA Stall/Spin Study -- Stowell's Review (8,000 words) Rich Stowell Piloting 25 September 11th 03 01:27 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.