Bible-beater pilots

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Hqrxb.128107$Dw6.561599@attbi_s02...
However, I believe some posters have been trying to state the obvious,
which
is: Religion is a powerful force for both good and evil. Gullible people
can be misled easily with the whole "fear of eternal damnation" threat.

Yes, a belief system is a very powerful motivator. It is worse than
unfortunate that there are those who exploit this for their own ends and to
the detriment of humanity. Perhaps in the future there will need to be
stricter limits on religious freedoms, who knows.

I think this thread has played itself out. Have a happy Thanksgiving
everyone!

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:45:58 +0000, Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I think this thread has played itself out. Have a happy Thanksgiving
everyone!

See this is where I have a problem. People who claim to not be religious
celebrate holidays such as Christmas, Easter, and yes Thanksgiving.

Do some research into the origins of Thanksgiving, and also that of our
Country and you'll see a religious connection.

As for me, I do not observe those holidays since they have been corrupted
by the Catholics trying to sway the belief system of pagans. For those
that care to check it out most of our current religions holidays have been
based on dates the pagans observed their festivals. There is a lot of
crap organized religion has shoved down our throats and until recently
most held it as true. Now they say we know what it means, but we don't
celebrate it like that so it's ok. It's NOT OK!

For my biggest gripe with organized religion look at Halloween, why would a
Church allow it's members to observe a pagan ritual, and actively
encourage it's members to observe it in their sanctuary when it's
expressly forbidden to partake of evil? Something is mighty screwed up
there and should be fixed, yet the attitude of we've always done it this
way and it's not hurt anybody is what keeps it going and is also why it's
wrong.

See this is where I have a problem. People who claim to not be religious
celebrate holidays such as Christmas, Easter, and yes Thanksgiving.

Oh, come on. On the one hand you say that these holidays pre-date their
current religious overtones, in some cases by thousands of years. Then, in
the next breath, you wonder why the religions allow their members to
celebrate them.

Well, it's pretty obvious to me -- people LIKE to celebrate. Even the
harshest religion probably learned long ago that you tamper with people's
traditional holidays at your own peril.

Christmas is a good example. Jesus' birthday was almost certainly NOT in
December -- but there was a pagan Winter Solstice holiday that needed to be
co-opted. Bingo! -- just add Jesus!

It's also eminently practical to add a celebration at the deepest, darkest,
coldest time of year. Most humans are naturally in a funk -- some
seriously -- at this time of years, and need a "pick-me-up" to get through
the long winter. Christmas and New Years Eve fit the bill perfectly.

Halloween is an even better example. Even the Catholic church knows not to
screw with a pagan holiday that allows little kids to get free candy! You
think their ranks are dwindling NOW -- just watch what happens to them if
they try to take away free candy! ;-)

Religions must be pragmatic to a certain degree or they will cease to
exist -- and their leaders know it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:05:14 +0000, Jay Honeck wrote:

Religions must be pragmatic to a certain degree or they will cease to
exist -- and their leaders know it.

You see, that's my point. Why bother to go through the charade of being
pius if you're going to ignore what the scripture says anyhow? Doesn't
that make it a bit hard to stomach?

I mean, it's like getting married and continuing to sleep with other
women, I mean why even bother getting married if you're not going to abide
by the covenant?

That's what I have against many organized religions, they allow the
membership to break their own covenants and continue on as if nothing ever
happened.

"Matthew P. Cummings" wrote in message
I mean, it's like getting married and continuing to sleep with other
women, I mean why even bother getting married if you're not going to abide
by the covenant?


You are defining marriage by a religiously determined set of rules.
Different marriages, under different or possibly no religion, may have
different customs. Same applies to non marriage related behaviors.

Each individual's belief system should be a private matter. When "church"
officials begin to interpret then demand compliance and the government
supports this is when things get messy.

"Peter Gottlieb" writes:

"Matthew P. Cummings" wrote in message
I mean, it's like getting married and continuing to sleep with other
women, I mean why even bother getting married if you're not going to abide
by the covenant?


You are defining marriage by a religiously determined set of rules.

And rules specific to one religion, and not even all branches of that
(remember the Mormons).

Different marriages, under different or possibly no religion, may have
different customs. Same applies to non marriage related behaviors.

Each individual's belief system should be a private matter. When "church"
officials begin to interpret then demand compliance and the government
supports this is when things get messy.

Yep.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: noguns-nomoney.com www.dd-b.net/carry/
Photos: dd-b.lighthunters.net Snapshots: www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: dragaera.info/

That's what I have against many organized religions, they allow the
membership to break their own covenants and continue on as if nothing ever
happened.

Agree 100%. In fact, one of the main problems we had with Catholicism was
the fact that every Catholic church in America seemed to interpret the laws
of the church differently.

For example, if you are Catholic, you are forbidden from using birth
control -- period. No ifs, ands or buts about it, you are FORBIDDEN from
taking the Pill, or using a condom. Yet the vast majority of American
"Catholic" women admit to using birth control.

Worse, the churches themselves do this little "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" thing
around the issue, allowing their members to continue in the church even
thought they know about the transgressors.

Not that I have anything against birth control -- I don't -- but if you want
to call yourself a "Catholic", follow their rules. If you want to use the
Pill, fine -- just don't make a sham of the church and call yourself a
"Catholic".

It's this kind of utter hypocrisy that drove Mary and me away from organized
religion.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"More and more people are leaving the Church and going back to God."

(Lenny Bruce)


Jim


"Jay Honeck"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-
-It's this kind of utter hypocrisy that drove Mary and me away from organized
-religion.

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

And that is precisely why you should respect these folks you had a hard time
with - they were at least acting consistently with their religion. Instead
of bad-mouthing them you should recognize at least that they were not being
hypocrites like you feel that all the rest of organized religion.


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:vYPxb.338356$HS4.2896996@attbi_s01...
That's what I have against many organized religions, they allow the
membership to break their own covenants and continue on as if nothing
ever
happened.

Agree 100%. In fact, one of the main problems we had with Catholicism was
the fact that every Catholic church in America seemed to interpret the
laws
of the church differently.

For example, if you are Catholic, you are forbidden from using birth
control -- period. No ifs, ands or buts about it, you are FORBIDDEN from
taking the Pill, or using a condom. Yet the vast majority of American
"Catholic" women admit to using birth control.

Worse, the churches themselves do this little "nudge-nudge, wink-wink"
thing
around the issue, allowing their members to continue in the church even
thought they know about the transgressors.

Not that I have anything against birth control -- I don't -- but if you
want
to call yourself a "Catholic", follow their rules. If you want to use the
Pill, fine -- just don't make a sham of the church and call yourself a
"Catholic".

It's this kind of utter hypocrisy that drove Mary and me away from
organized
religion.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

And that is precisely why you should respect these folks you had a hard
time
with - they were at least acting consistently with their religion.
Instead
of bad-mouthing them you should recognize at least that they were not
being
hypocrites like you feel that all the rest of organized religion.

Augh! Talk about "damned if you do, damned if you don't"...

I don't think a person has to be rude to be true to ones faith.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"