Big Kahunas

In article , Frank writes:


As an example take the "sanctions" imposed on Iraq. Many scoff and say they
didn't work and they are right. But we pretty much guaranteed they wouldn't
work by not pressuring others to support them and turning a blind eye when
we knew they were being violated. In other words, we weren't as committed
to using our economic power as we are now to using our military. As a
result we lost much of our moral high ground.


How, exactly, does one pressure France?

Short of standing on their border and shouting at them in German.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

In article d4RBb.29632$ZE1.26228@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:

On 10 Dec 2003 19:14:07 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article kivBb.29415$ZE1.25509@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:


I think you don't know what some US corporations are doing in other
"emerging" countries.

Providing a means for them to emerge.


I was talking about this emerge from the dictionary:
"to rise from an obscure or inferior position or condition"

So you assume that they are in an inferior position or condition
and that's part of the problem. And you must assume no matter
what the corporations to it's progress. But that's unfortunately
not true.


Inferior is a loaded word.

Emerging nations and developed nations trade. They trade what they can do
better for what others do better.

We raise wheat better and develop technology better, they provide cheap labor
better.

We can't buy jet engines from or electric generators from emerging nations
because they don't sell them. We buy cheap labor from them because that is
what, for now, they have to offer. The alternative is to not buy what they have
to sell and let them do without our wheat and technology.

That isn't helping them.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

In article emRBb.29640$ZE1.24408@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:


Those $5 picture frames will have a long term cost that cannot be paid back.



Those $5 picture frames are what those folks have to offer, for now.

WOuld you prefer we don't buy them and let them eat picture frames?

Or pay $10 for the same frame, and not have the other $5 to spend on something
else some other third world worker wants to sell us so He and his children can
starve?

No matter how good your intentions, you cannot overrule the free market. Every
time you try to distort the market to help some poor sap you can see, you hurt
some other poor sap you don't see.

The market allocates resources better than anyone in authority can, no matter
how wise and beneficent they think they are.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:15:45 GMT Bob Noel wrote:

In article ,
(leslie) wrote:

Jay Honeck ) wrote:
: I think you don't know what some US corporations are doing in other
: "emerging" countries.
:
: Enlighten us, please.
:
http://www.globalexchange.org/econom...01/survey.html
: Globalization Survey Reveals U.S. Corporations Prefer Dictatorships

"American businesses may say they believe in democracy, but they are
not putting their money where their mouth is, according to a report
by a Washington-based think tank..."

Corporations have a similar management style.

consumers in the US and across the world also have responsibility.


Bingo! Damn right. We have a throw away mentality here and it's not likely
to change and that effects the globe.



--
Bob Noel

On 11 Dec 2003 16:21:41 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article d4RBb.29632$ZE1.26228@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:

On 10 Dec 2003 19:14:07 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article kivBb.29415$ZE1.25509@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:


I think you don't know what some US corporations are doing in other
"emerging" countries.

Providing a means for them to emerge.


I was talking about this emerge from the dictionary:
"to rise from an obscure or inferior position or condition"

So you assume that they are in an inferior position or condition
and that's part of the problem. And you must assume no matter
what the corporations to it's progress. But that's unfortunately
not true.


Inferior is a loaded word.


What's loaded about it?


Emerging nations and developed nations trade. They trade what they can do
better for what others do better.


But the process lays waste to the "emerging" nation in social costs and
environmental costs. But what do you care as long as you can buy your
goods cheaply. You don't have to look at the consequences.



We raise wheat better and develop technology better, they provide cheap labor
better.

No we subsidize our wheat farmers better and enforce higher tariffs on
competing technology better.




We can't buy jet engines from or electric generators from emerging nations
because they don't sell them. We buy cheap labor from them because that is
what, for now, they have to offer. The alternative is to not buy what they have
to sell and let them do without our wheat and technology.


See above.


That isn't helping them.

So you think we're helping them and I don't think we're helping them.
They should be helping themselves but we're trying to drag them along
with us whether they want to come or not.



R. Hubbell

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

On 11 Dec 2003 16:21:42 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article emRBb.29640$ZE1.24408@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:


Those $5 picture frames will have a long term cost that cannot be paid back.



Those $5 picture frames are what those folks have to offer, for now.


At least until all the forests are gone there, yes.



WOuld you prefer we don't buy them and let them eat picture frames?


I would prefer that they realize that it would be better for them to
not bother trying to keep up with the Jones. The Jones might seem
happy but there is a high price to pay for that happiness and it's
essentially empty.



Or pay $10 for the same frame, and not have the other $5 to spend on something
else some other third world worker wants to sell us so He and his children can
starve?

See above.



No matter how good your intentions, you cannot overrule the free market. Every
time you try to distort the market to help some poor sap you can see, you hurt
some other poor sap you don't see.

See above.



The market allocates resources better than anyone in authority can, no matter
how wise and beneficent they think they are.


Look past the "market", move away the curtain and look what's really behind it
if you have the capacity to do so. The planet is not inexhaustible, unfortunately.


R. Hubbell

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

If you do a web search you'll see reports of between 200,000 to 500,000
popular votes favoring Gore and of course an argument of what that really
means.

C'mon, the USA Today election map at
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/usmap-large.gif clearly shows that the country
OVERWHELMINGLY supported Bush. The fact that the big cities happen to have
more dead voters just graphically illustrates who is GETTING the tax money,
versus who is PAYING it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Look past the "market", move away the curtain and look what's really
behind it
if you have the capacity to do so. The planet is not inexhaustible,
unfortunately.

You know, your platitudes are getting tiresome.

We're all aware of the limitations and transitory hardships that trade can
impose, but -- at the moment -- no one has come up with a better economic
model. If you *truly* have a better alternative to the free market, tell
us.

If you don't, suck it up, quityerbitchin', realize that in this world there
are winners and losers, and try to improve things in your own neighborhood.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Oh yes, that's right. The "Thai (and Chinese) people are simply more
dedicated to what they're trying to do economically than we are".

Perhaps the fact that the workers are paid 24 cents an hour and work 84
hours a week might have something to do with it. But who cares what the
Chinese are paid. We get our toys dirt-cheap.

Okay, how else would YOU define "dedication"?

If these folks are willing to work 84 hours per week, for 24 cents per hour,
I'd say it's pretty obvious who is more devoted to what they're trying to do
economically. Would YOU work for that pay?

The obvious answer is "nope". Guess who is more dedicated?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Earl Grieda" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:cMMBb.302393$Dw6.1006170@attbi_s02...

It's amazing, isn't it? I don't pretend to
understand how they can possibly make that stuff
in Thailand cheaper than we can make it here --
the shipping alone has to cost 50% or more of that
six bucks.

I was just out shopping for my kid's Xmas presents.
On the shelf was a "real" "GI Joe", for $21.00. Next
to it was a knock-off that actually had MORE cool stuff,
for $4.99. Funny thing is, BOTH were made in China -- so
what's the difference? One said "Hasbro", and one was
"No Name" -- what do I care?

I bought TWO of the No-Names...

I'd guess that the Thai (and Chinese) people are simply
more dedicated to what they're trying to do economically
than we are...
--

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/7449186.htm


Earl G.

How, exactly, does one pressure France?

Short of standing on their border and shouting at them in German.

On the contrary, I believe we have found the PERFECT method of pressuring
the French (and other so-called "allies") -- we have quite simply
disqualified them from bidding on any reconstruction contracts in Iraq.

This has been "Big News" the last couple of days, as if it were somehow
revolutionary to exclude disloyal nations from reaping the benefits of our
labors. Personally, I call it "justice".

Money talks.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"