Big Kahunas

On 12 Dec 2003 17:35:20 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article JtmCb.2429$pY.219@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:



But don't tell them that their children have to starve because you won't
purchase anything made of tropical hardwoods because the orangutans are
more
important than their children.

The idea is to tell them that if they manage their resources much more
carefully
then in the long haul they will be better off.



If you're so sure you can manage that forest better than them for the long
haul, then buy the forrests from them and manage them yourself, or through some
like minded organization. If you're right, you'll make a big profit and retire
rich.

We would need to show them that managing their forest themselves is key.
Give people responsibiliy and they'll become responsible.

BTW retiring rich or poor is not for me. Seen too many people fall of the radar
forever after retiring. But yeah helping other countries manage their natural
resources wouldn't certainly be a welcome challenge for me. That's a great
idea. A steward for the planet.


But don't tell them to literally bet their lives your way is better while
absorbing none of the risk yourself.

They've already bet their lives on the current scheme and if they don't
turn back they will lose.



The market will determine who was right in the long haul.

Maybe you have not noticed the "market" that you oversimplyfyingly refer to
has decided. It won't work, it doesn't work. But from your point of view
it seems to work great. You get your $5 dollar picture frame. The get a
barren landscape devoid of life and not useful to anyone.

R. Hubbell




Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

In article atICb.2786$pY.316@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:


If you're so sure you can manage that forest better than them for the long
haul, then buy the forrests from them and manage them yourself, or through
some
like minded organization. If you're right, you'll make a big profit and
retire
rich.

We would need to show them that managing their forest themselves is key.
Give people responsibiliy and they'll become responsible.


In other words, tell them how to live and how to use their property.
Traditionally, the way that is done is to conquer and colonize the land those
foolish and ignorant savages live on and take control of their lives away from
them. Ask the British about that, they have more experience at it than us.

BTW retiring rich or poor is not for me. Seen too many people fall of the
radar
forever after retiring. But yeah helping other countries manage their
natural
resources wouldn't certainly be a welcome challenge for me. That's a great
idea. A steward for the planet.


And in return for your wise and benevolent stewardship, all you ask is absolute
power over the lives and property of others.


But don't tell them to literally bet their lives your way is better while
absorbing none of the risk yourself.

They've already bet their lives on the current scheme and if they don't
turn back they will lose.

Why, it worked for us?

We plundered the capital of the land and forrest to get our start and built on
that a nation that feeds and employs the world.



The market will determine who was right in the long haul.

Maybe you have not noticed the "market" that you oversimplyfyingly refer to
has decided. It won't work, it doesn't work. But from your point of view
it seems to work great. You get your $5 dollar picture frame. The get a
barren landscape devoid of life and not useful to anyone.


They get a start toward what we have.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

On 13 Dec 2003 22:41:09 GMT, Wdtabor wrote:

They've already bet their lives on the current scheme and if they don't
turn back they will lose.

Why, it worked for us?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

We plundered the capital of the land and forrest to get our start and built on
that a nation that feeds and employs the world.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Man, are you weired.

#m

--
http://www.declareyourself.com/fyr_candidates.php
http://www.subterrane.com/bush.shtml

On 13 Dec 2003 22:41:09 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article atICb.2786$pY.316@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:


If you're so sure you can manage that forest better than them for the long
haul, then buy the forrests from them and manage them yourself, or through
some
like minded organization. If you're right, you'll make a big profit and
retire
rich.

We would need to show them that managing their forest themselves is key.
Give people responsibiliy and they'll become responsible.


In other words, tell them how to live and how to use their property.


No, not in other words, in those words. We teach them. You know
"give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach him, he eats for a lifetime...."
Maybe useful to add... Teach him to manage the fishery and his children and
their children eat and so on and on.

Traditionally, the way that is done is to conquer and colonize the land those
foolish and ignorant savages live on and take control of their lives away from
them. Ask the British about that, they have more experience at it than us.

Ok, I see now you're caught up in traditions. Well traditions don't fit anymore.


BTW retiring rich or poor is not for me. Seen too many people fall of the
radar
forever after retiring. But yeah helping other countries manage their
natural
resources wouldn't certainly be a welcome challenge for me. That's a great



*** Actually I meant "would certainly be a welcome challenge for me." ***



idea. A steward for the planet.


And in return for your wise and benevolent stewardship, all you ask is absolute
power over the lives and property of others.

I ask for nothing in return, only the satisfaction of helping them achieve
ecological and economical balance. Costa Rica is a great example of that
right now.




But don't tell them to literally bet their lives your way is better while
absorbing none of the risk yourself.

They've already bet their lives on the current scheme and if they don't
turn back they will lose.

Why, it worked for us?

But has it? It hasn't been long enough to tell for sure. In fact I think it's
long of tooth. Why else would we spend 85 billion in Iraq? Got to keep the
money moving through the economy somehow. A jobless recovery indeed. It's
jobless in the states but there'll be plenty of jobs in Iraq.



We plundered the capital of the land and forrest to get our start and built on
that a nation that feeds and employs the world.

Interesting view point. Lucklily there are enough people that care about the
land that we just might be able to save some of the ecosystem.




The market will determine who was right in the long haul.

Maybe you have not noticed the "market" that you oversimplyfyingly refer to
has decided. It won't work, it doesn't work. But from your point of view
it seems to work great. You get your $5 dollar picture frame. The get a
barren landscape devoid of life and not useful to anyone.


They get a start toward what we have.


You mean the power to consume the world's resources at an alarming rate?
Not a very fulfilling goal.

So they can in turn exploit some other people of their natural resources
and culture? It's a cycle that they need to learn is not sustainable.
We should show them.


R. Hubbell


Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

In article oSTCb.3979$pY.3084@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:

In other words, tell them how to live and how to use their property.


No, not in other words, in those words. We teach them. You know
"give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach him, he eats for a lifetime...."
Maybe useful to add... Teach him to manage the fishery and his children and
their children eat and so on and on.


Wow! It must be nice to be so sure of your superiority.

But even if that were true, what gives you the right to direct their lives?

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

On 14 Dec 2003 11:48:12 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article oSTCb.3979$pY.3084@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:

In other words, tell them how to live and how to use their property.


No, not in other words, in those words. We teach them. You know
"give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach him, he eats for a lifetime...."
Maybe useful to add... Teach him to manage the fishery and his children and
their children eat and so on and on.


Wow! It must be nice to be so sure of your superiority.

But even if that were true, what gives you the right to direct their lives?


I guess you're done since you don't have any counterpoint.


R. Hubbell


Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

In article qM0Db.5251$pY.2269@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:

On 14 Dec 2003 11:48:12 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article oSTCb.3979$pY.3084@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:

In other words, tell them how to live and how to use their property.


No, not in other words, in those words. We teach them. You know
"give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach him, he eats for a
lifetime...."
Maybe useful to add... Teach him to manage the fishery and his children
and
their children eat and so on and on.


Wow! It must be nice to be so sure of your superiority.

But even if that were true, what gives you the right to direct their lives?



I guess you're done since you don't have any counterpoint.


Sure I did, it just went over your arrogant head.

Your priorities for their land and lives are not theirs. You don't live there
and you bear no risk if your Pollyanna ideas of land use fail, but their
children die if they accept your advice and it is wrong.

So, unless you can, in some way, underwrite your plans for their resources and
lives, you have no right to impose your vision of land use on them.

So long as you do not share the risks of failure, you have no right to make
their choices for them.

So, as I said before, if you think you can manage their land better than they
can, organize a consortium of like minded individuals and BUY their land from
them so that you bear the risk if your ideas don't work instead of them.
Otherwise, I'm sure if they want your enlightened advice, they can ask for it.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

On 14 Dec 2003 18:32:45 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article qM0Db.5251$pY.2269@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:

On 14 Dec 2003 11:48:12 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article oSTCb.3979$pY.3084@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:

In other words, tell them how to live and how to use their property.


No, not in other words, in those words. We teach them. You know
"give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach him, he eats for a
lifetime...."
Maybe useful to add... Teach him to manage the fishery and his children
and
their children eat and so on and on.


Wow! It must be nice to be so sure of your superiority.

But even if that were true, what gives you the right to direct their lives?



I guess you're done since you don't have any counterpoint.


Sure I did, it just went over your arrogant head.


As I said before name calling means the argument is over. You had your chance.
And as you have done I wil repeat what I've said before.


Your priorities for their land and lives are not theirs. You don't live there
and you bear no risk if your Pollyanna ideas of land use fail, but their

Hardly "pollyanna", it's working in Gabon and it's working in Costa Rica and
elsewhere. IT's not working where we're buying $5 picture frames.


children die if they accept your advice and it is wrong.

The children are dying with the current model.



So, unless you can, in some way, underwrite your plans for their resources and
lives, you have no right to impose your vision of land use on them.

It's not my plan it's a plan that's working. It has to be the one that they
see has an end game instead of the current game which does not.



So long as you do not share the risks of failure, you have no right to make
their choices for them.

It's not my choice we only have to show them that the current approach won't
last for them. Once the resources are depleted that's it. Manage and nurture
it and it will last for generations.

We all share the risks of failure, but you don't see that for some reason.
A narrow world view perhaps.


So, as I said before, if you think you can manage their land better than they
can, organize a consortium of like minded individuals and BUY their land from
them so that you bear the risk if your ideas don't work instead of them.
Otherwise, I'm sure if they want your enlightened advice, they can ask for it.


They only need to look at successful land management that doesn't require selling
picture frames.


R. Hubbell


Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG