Big Kahunas

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:20:22 -0600 "Gig Giacona" wrote:


"R. Hubbell" wrote in message
news:GZ9Cb.177$pY.171@fed1read04...
Check out
the Toyota Prius. They're selling like hotcakes even with high tariffs.


GIG Wrote
That is what an free market does. Left alone a free market will cause
all
materials to be used for the most efficient use.


Dream on.

Your argument proves my point. If it becomes important enough the market
will deal with the problem. In this case the Toyota Prius. But I'd be
willing to bet they are not out selling SUVs.


Now I've got you! Mooohahaha. SUVs have been selling like hot cakes
because of at least two loopholes in the laws. One is how they are classified
and the other is a huge tax-break for businesses that buy them (a weight thing)

The "market" you lovingly cling to is once again artificially buoyed up
because it's rivets are popping and it's long in the tooth and creaking and
it's past TBO and it's ready to rest in Davey Jones' locker and it's ready
to go Tango Uniform and ....


Now the Prius has huge tariffs imposed by the US govt. and their are no
loopholes. (although I think in some states the state subsidizes a portion
of the cost, sort of like undoing the federally imposed tariffs)

"R. Hubbell" wrote in message
news:MBICb.2788$pY.2535@fed1read04...
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:20:22 -0600 "Gig Giacona"
wrote:

Your argument proves my point. If it becomes important enough the market
will deal with the problem. In this case the Toyota Prius. But I'd be
willing to bet they are not out selling SUVs.


Now I've got you! Mooohahaha. SUVs have been selling like hot cakes
because of at least two loopholes in the laws. One is how they are
classified
and the other is a huge tax-break for businesses that buy them (a weight
thing)

Keep in mind that the world and for that matter the USA is a very big place.
Not every state gives huge tax breaks for SUVs. And in most states the tax
goes up with the weight. BUT... for the sake of agument let's not even talk
about cars bought for business use... Just personal. I'd be will ing to bet
the Prius is still way behind the even Toyota's own SUV in sales.


The "market" you lovingly cling to is once again artificially buoyed up
because it's rivets are popping and it's long in the tooth and creaking
and
it's past TBO and it's ready to rest in Davey Jones' locker and it's ready
to go Tango Uniform and ....

And state controlled economies have just proven SOOOO successful.




Now the Prius has huge tariffs imposed by the US govt. and their are no
loopholes. (although I think in some states the state subsidizes a portion
of the cost, sort of like undoing the federally imposed tariffs)


I have no idea what the tariff is on the Prius but from Toyota's own web
site there seems to be some sort of Federal Tax DEDUCTION for buying one.




Retail purchasers of a new Prius may be eligible for a federal tax deduction
of up to $2,000 for purchases completed during calendar year 2003. Details
are as follows:
How to Claim up to $2,000 Federal Tax Deduction

The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) requires that purchasers retain normal
proof of purchase documentation as well as the Toyota Certification letter
and Internal Revenue Service Acknowledgement letter as substantiation for
the deduction.
For printable copies of both letters, click the icons below.
For further information from the IRS, see the IRS News Releases of October
6, 2003; August 12, 2003; and Revenue Procedure 2002-42.
Toyota Certification Letter - Model Years 2001, 2002 and 2003
Toyota Certification Letter - Model Year 2004
IRS Acknowledgement Letter - Model Years 2001, 2002 and 2003
IRS Acknowledgement Letter - Model Year 2004

Up to $2,000 Federal Tax Deduction Guidelines

The purchase of a new Prius (model years 2001, 2002, 2003 or 2004 only) must
be completed on or before December 31, 2003 for the $2000 deduction.
Vehicles purchased during calendar year 2004 may be eligible for a $1,500
tax deduction.
Before using this important federal tax deduction on your tax return, please
check with your tax advisor for possible additional state tax benefits and
for any changes in the federal tax laws that might occur after October 1,
2003.
The federal tax deduction is not available for Prius lessees or purchasers
of used Prius vehicles. To the extent applicable, this deduction is
available to Prius purchasers regardless of whether you itemize deductions
on your federal income tax return.
Your overall federal tax benefit will depend on your individual tax
situation, particularly if you claim depreciation deductions on your Prius.
See your tax advisor for more details.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:01:22 -0600 "Gig Giacona" wrote:


"R. Hubbell" wrote in message
news:MBICb.2788$pY.2535@fed1read04...
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:20:22 -0600 "Gig Giacona"
wrote:

Your argument proves my point. If it becomes important enough the market
will deal with the problem. In this case the Toyota Prius. But I'd be
willing to bet they are not out selling SUVs.


Now I've got you! Mooohahaha. SUVs have been selling like hot cakes
because of at least two loopholes in the laws. One is how they are
classified
and the other is a huge tax-break for businesses that buy them (a weight
thing)

Keep in mind that the world and for that matter the USA is a very big place.
Not every state gives huge tax breaks for SUVs. And in most states the tax

Neither lophole is a state loophole.


goes up with the weight. BUT... for the sake of agument let's not even talk
about cars bought for business use... Just personal. I'd be will ing to bet
the Prius is still way behind the even Toyota's own SUV in sales.


You're missing one of the main points, the fact that SUVs are misclassified
allows people to buy them at a fraction of what they would cost if they
were classified properly. (don't have the details, I believe it hinges on
weight and safety ratings)



The "market" you lovingly cling to is once again artificially buoyed up
because it's rivets are popping and it's long in the tooth and creaking
and
it's past TBO and it's ready to rest in Davey Jones' locker and it's ready
to go Tango Uniform and ....

And state controlled economies have just proven SOOOO successful.

And there lies the crux of the whole thing.
Define successful.





Now the Prius has huge tariffs imposed by the US govt. and their are no
loopholes. (although I think in some states the state subsidizes a portion
of the cost, sort of like undoing the federally imposed tariffs)


I have no idea what the tariff is on the Prius but from Toyota's own web
site there seems to be some sort of Federal Tax DEDUCTION for buying one.


But that is still a fraction of the price reduction that SUVs enjoy.


R. Hubbell





Retail purchasers of a new Prius may be eligible for a federal tax deduction
of up to $2,000 for purchases completed during calendar year 2003. Details
are as follows:
How to Claim up to $2,000 Federal Tax Deduction

The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) requires that purchasers retain normal
proof of purchase documentation as well as the Toyota Certification letter
and Internal Revenue Service Acknowledgement letter as substantiation for
the deduction.
For printable copies of both letters, click the icons below.
For further information from the IRS, see the IRS News Releases of October
6, 2003; August 12, 2003; and Revenue Procedure 2002-42.
Toyota Certification Letter - Model Years 2001, 2002 and 2003
Toyota Certification Letter - Model Year 2004
IRS Acknowledgement Letter - Model Years 2001, 2002 and 2003
IRS Acknowledgement Letter - Model Year 2004

Up to $2,000 Federal Tax Deduction Guidelines

The purchase of a new Prius (model years 2001, 2002, 2003 or 2004 only) must
be completed on or before December 31, 2003 for the $2000 deduction.
Vehicles purchased during calendar year 2004 may be eligible for a $1,500
tax deduction.
Before using this important federal tax deduction on your tax return, please
check with your tax advisor for possible additional state tax benefits and
for any changes in the federal tax laws that might occur after October 1,
2003.
The federal tax deduction is not available for Prius lessees or purchasers
of used Prius vehicles. To the extent applicable, this deduction is
available to Prius purchasers regardless of whether you itemize deductions
on your federal income tax return.
Your overall federal tax benefit will depend on your individual tax
situation, particularly if you claim depreciation deductions on your Prius.
See your tax advisor for more details.

In article SYpDb.12267$pY.8244@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
wrote:

You're missing one of the main points, the fact that SUVs are
misclassified
allows people to buy them at a fraction of what they would cost if they
were classified properly. (don't have the details, I believe it hinges on
weight and safety ratings)

"a fraction"? how much? 1/10th? 1/2? 95%?

--
Bob Noel

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 00:23:48 GMT Bob Noel wrote:

In article SYpDb.12267$pY.8244@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
wrote:

You're missing one of the main points, the fact that SUVs are
misclassified
allows people to buy them at a fraction of what they would cost if they
were classified properly. (don't have the details, I believe it hinges on
weight and safety ratings)

"a fraction"? how much? 1/10th? 1/2? 95%?


I have heard that if SUVs were to have to meet safety requirements
imposed on PAX cars that their prices would be close to double.

PAX cars have more stringent requirements then trucks. Those requirements
alter the price considerably. e.g. trucks don't even have to have bumpers.

But we all know SUVs are PAX cars.

And my original point was that SUVs have been artificially bouyed up
by the govt. and the free market everyone loves to tout is not really
a free market. Our economy is indeed govt. run.


R. Hubbell



--
Bob Noel

"R. Hubbell" wrote in message
news:SYpDb.12267$pY.8244@fed1read04...
Gig WROTE:
And state controlled economies have just proven SOOOO successful.

And there lies the crux of the whole thing.
Define successful.



They didn't all implode over the last 15 years.

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:57:13 -0600 "Gig Giacona" wrote:


"R. Hubbell" wrote in message
news:SYpDb.12267$pY.8244@fed1read04...
Gig WROTE:
And state controlled economies have just proven SOOOO successful.

And there lies the crux of the whole thing.
Define successful.



They didn't all implode over the last 15 years.


But you still haven't defined successful. It's a relative term.
Your definition will be relative to your experience. Our economy is
state controlled it's just that you and many others can't see that it is.
Tariffs, subsidies, etc., etc.


R. Hubbell