Enola Gay Damaged at Air & Space Museum Opening

Given that the soviet planners had thought all this through, in my mind it
is unlikely that a single bomber would have gotten through... The soviets
had rings of interceptor squadrons, numbering in the thousands - cheap,
short range, totally expendable, fast climbing jet fighters... Each bomber
would have been like a sparrow flying into one cloud of hornets after
another... That is why ICBM's are the weapon of deterrence, not bombers...

Denny
"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:
You mean like the losses the B-29s took bombing Japan?

The discussion I believe was about the B-36. It flew above the
absolute ceiling of contemporary MiG fighters. The British begged for
a chance to challenge the 36, but the USAF wisely ignored them. No
American fighter of the time could get up there, and no Russian
either.

In tests over Florida, in the rare cases where an interceptor could
match the 36's altitude, all the bomber had to do was execute a slow
turn. When the fighter matched it, it fell away. And nobody knows if
the 36 was flying at its absolute ceiling in those tests; evidently it
could go much higher.

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:07:48 -0500, "Dennis O'Connor"
wrote:

Given that the soviet planners had thought all this through, in my mind it
is unlikely that a single bomber would have gotten through... The soviets
had rings of interceptor squadrons, numbering in the thousands - cheap,
short range, totally expendable, fast climbing jet fighters... Each bomber
would have been like a sparrow flying into one cloud of hornets after
another... That is why ICBM's are the weapon of deterrence, not bombers...

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

The discussion I believe was about the B-36. It flew above the
absolute ceiling of contemporary MiG fighters. The British begged for
a chance to challenge the 36, but the USAF wisely ignored them. No
American fighter of the time could get up there, and no Russian
either.

In tests over Florida, in the rare cases where an interceptor could
match the 36's altitude, all the bomber had to do was execute a slow
turn. When the fighter matched it, it fell away. And nobody knows if
the 36 was flying at its absolute ceiling in those tests; evidently it
could go much higher.

While the B-36 was obsolete within a few years, it did have the altitude
capabilities you mention. Whats more, the MiG-15 could not reach those
altitudes; even if they could their oxygen systems were so bad their pilots
would be passing out long before they could climb high enough to intercept.

OTOH, read Chcuk Yeagers auto-biography where he speaks of intercepting the
B-36 and how they tried to stack the tests in favor of the '36.

The discussion I believe was about the B-36. It flew above the
absolute ceiling of contemporary MiG fighters. The British begged for
a chance to challenge the 36, but the USAF wisely ignored them.

Why? I take it the British fighters *could* get 'em?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

The discussion I believe was about the B-36. It flew above the
absolute ceiling of contemporary MiG fighters. The British begged for
a chance to challenge the 36, but the USAF wisely ignored them.

Why? I take it the British fighters *could* get 'em?

In the late 40s, Rolls-Royce made the best jet engines in the world. The Russians
put copies of that engine in the MiG-17 after a socialist British government gave
them the design.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...

In the late 40s, Rolls-Royce made the best jet engines in the world. The
Russians
put copies of that engine in the MiG-17 after a socialist British
government gave
them the design.


MiG-15.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:NbiFb.618902$Fm2.558090@attbi_s04...
The discussion I believe was about the B-36. It flew above the
absolute ceiling of contemporary MiG fighters. The British begged for
a chance to challenge the 36, but the USAF wisely ignored them.

Why? I take it the British fighters *could* get 'em?
Lets put it this way, There was the case some years ago, of a U2, coming
over the UK, in excess of 82000ft, with his camera doors open. When two
fighters came up on his wingtips, and 'invited' him to come down and
explain, the comment from the pilot afterwards was "we didn't realise you
could get so high". Back in those days, the ceiling of the old
'frightening', was limited primarily by the fact that you burnt so much fuel
getting up there...

Best Wishes

"Roger Hamlett" wrote in message
...
Lets put it this way, There was the case some years ago, of a U2, coming
over the UK, in excess of 82000ft, with his camera doors open. When two
fighters came up on his wingtips, and 'invited' him to come down and
explain, the comment from the pilot afterwards was "we didn't realise you
could get so high". Back in those days, the ceiling of the old
'frightening', was limited primarily by the fact that you burnt so much
fuel
getting up there...


Hmmm...what fighter could reach 82,000 feet in those days, short of an
experimental (F-104...)?

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Roger Hamlett" wrote in message
...
Lets put it this way, There was the case some years ago, of a U2, coming
over the UK, in excess of 82000ft, with his camera doors open. When two
fighters came up on his wingtips, and 'invited' him to come down and
explain, the comment from the pilot afterwards was "we didn't realise
you
could get so high". Back in those days, the ceiling of the old
'frightening', was limited primarily by the fact that you burnt so much
fuel
getting up there...


Hmmm...what fighter could reach 82,000 feet in those days, short of an
experimental (F-104...)?
Sorry, 62000feet (what is 20000 feet after all...). The 'frightening', had a
claimed ceiling of 67000 feet, and the pilot who took it there, siad it
could still have got higher, but his fuel duration limited the attempt.

Best Wishes

In article , Roger Hamlett wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:NbiFb.618902$Fm2.558090@attbi_s04...
The discussion I believe was about the B-36. It flew above the
absolute ceiling of contemporary MiG fighters. The British begged for
a chance to challenge the 36, but the USAF wisely ignored them.

Why? I take it the British fighters *could* get 'em?
Lets put it this way, There was the case some years ago, of a U2, coming
over the UK, in excess of 82000ft, with his camera doors open. When two
fighters came up on his wingtips, and 'invited' him to come down and
explain, the comment from the pilot afterwards was "we didn't realise you
could get so high". Back in those days, the ceiling of the old
'frightening', was limited primarily by the fact that you burnt so much fuel
getting up there...

Do you have a citation? It seems unlikely that the Lightning could get that
high, and if it could, it seems completely impossible that it could operate
at the same airspeed as the U-2 (that slow, that is).

Thanks,

Mike Beede