OK, what the hell has happened to the Brits?

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

This is quoted from a Home Office Report (Like Justice Dept)

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether
fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat. Two thirds of these
offences (6950), involved the firearm being used as a 'threat', but in
around 17% (1750) the firearm was fired at a person and an injury
resulted.
Three quarters of these cases the injury was slight, but in one quarter it
was more serious, including 80 incidents where the injury proved fatal
(down
from 95 recorded in 2001-2). Nearly two thirds of firearms offences
occurred
in just three metropolitan forces, The Metropolitan Police, Greater
Manchester Police and West Midlands Police.

In most parts of England and Wales the incidence of firearm offences is
very
low, and the chances of becoming a victim of a shooting are very low. The
risk of a fatal shooting in England and Wales is still one of the lowest
in
the world.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/pdf/1sectionone.pdf

Murder Victims USA






by Weapon, 1998-2002





Weapons
1998
1999
2000
20011
2002















Total
14,209
13,011
13,230
14,061
14,054

Total firearms:
9,220
8,480
8,661
8,890
9,369

Handguns
7,405
6,658
6,778
6,931
7,176

Rifles
546
400
411
386
480

Shotguns
626
531
485
511
476

Other guns
16
92
53
59
74

Firearms, type not stated
627
799
934
1,003
1,163

Knives or cutting






instruments
1,890
1,712
1,782
1,831
1,767

Blunt objects (clubs,






hammers, etc.)
750
756
617
680
666

Personal weapons (hands,






fists, feet, etc.)2
959
885
927
961
933

Poison
6
11
8
12
23

Explosives
10
0
9
4
11

Fire
132
133
134
109
104

Narcotics
33
26
20
37
48

Drowning
28
28
15
23
18

Strangulation
213
190
166
153
143

Asphyxiation
99
106
92
116
103

Other weapons or






weapons not stated
869
684
799
1,245
869

Dave wrote:

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.


a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether
fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat.

What does that have to do with Don's statement?

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...

Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether...

Don is talking about the lower rate of other crimes, not firearm
crimes. Since (IIRC) the night-time burglary rate in New York is
about 20% of that in London, he has a point -- few people are
likely to climb through a window if they think the occupant has
a shotgun on the other side.

What the Brits have traded (mostly without realizing it) is a
slightly lower gun homicide rate (those previously-legal-gun
owners who go postal) in exchange for a vastly enhanced
rate for burglary and other crime. It seems like a bad bargain
to me.

But I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tony Martin. He
was a home owner who dispatched a low-life home invader
with his shotgun. He was convicted of murder, reduced to
manslaughter on appeal, and denied parole as he was deemed
"a danger to burglars". The public outcry is such that now
37% (BBC Radio 4 poll) think that a law to allow householders
to use any means to confront burglars is called for. So things
may well change for the better.

In article , "Dave"
writes:


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

This is quoted from a Home Office Report (Like Justice Dept)

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether
fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat.

So?

I specified strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assault and battery,
and stranger rape. None of those involve firearms and all are more common in
Britain and Europe than here. (NOTE: possible language barrier, home
invasion=/=burglary. Home invasion robberies are specifically forcefull
robberies in an occupied dwelling)

Also note that rape overall is more common here, but stranger rape is not.
There might be a reporting difference involved as I do not know how statutory
and date rape are defined and reported in europe.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...

I avoid everybody carrying a weapon. And as long as I can decide it (!)
nobody with a weapon is entering my house, my office or sitting in my
car.
And I turn away from everybody carrying a weapon, I also avoid beeing
too
close to cops carrying a weapon.


What do you do when those that carry guns don't give a damn what you
decide?

You mean Americans then - tell them to **** off.

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...

I avoid everybody carrying a weapon. And as long as I can decide it
(!)
nobody with a weapon is entering my house, my office or sitting in my
car.
And I turn away from everybody carrying a weapon, I also avoid beeing
too
close to cops carrying a weapon.


What do you do when those that carry guns don't give a damn what you
decide?

You mean Americans then - tell them to **** off.


Another brilliant answer from the xenophobic and powerless europeans.
Dismantling your military and banning guns is really paying off for you
guys, no?

Lets see, rampant crime and absolutely no say in world affairs. Good job.

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...

I avoid everybody carrying a weapon. And as long as I can decide it
(!)
nobody with a weapon is entering my house, my office or sitting in
my
car.
And I turn away from everybody carrying a weapon, I also avoid
beeing
too
close to cops carrying a weapon.


What do you do when those that carry guns don't give a damn what you
decide?

You mean Americans then - tell them to **** off.


Another brilliant answer from the xenophobic and powerless europeans.
Dismantling your military and banning guns is really paying off for you
guys, no?

Lets see, rampant crime and absolutely no say in world affairs. Good job.

Compare that with being despised by most of the world and the target of
terrorists (freedom fighters) and incapable of doing anything about it.

Has Afghanistan made any difference? No
Has Iraq made any difference? No

Just look at the US body count since 911.

Nearly 1000 US service men have been killed. That's 40% of the number who
perished on 911.

About 20,000 nationals of Afghanistan and Iraq who were non combatants have
also been killed.

911 was a tragedy but the real tragedy is that the US has not learned a
single lesson from it. I hope that the next lesson will be learnt and
understood.

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news
"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...

I avoid everybody carrying a weapon. And as long as I can decide
it
(!)
nobody with a weapon is entering my house, my office or sitting in
my
car.
And I turn away from everybody carrying a weapon, I also avoid
beeing
too
close to cops carrying a weapon.


What do you do when those that carry guns don't give a damn what you
decide?

You mean Americans then - tell them to **** off.


Another brilliant answer from the xenophobic and powerless europeans.
Dismantling your military and banning guns is really paying off for you
guys, no?

Lets see, rampant crime and absolutely no say in world affairs. Good
job.

Compare that with being despised by most of the world and the target of
terrorists (freedom fighters) and incapable of doing anything about it.

Has Afghanistan made any difference? No
Has Iraq made any difference? No

Just look at the US body count since 911.

The US civillian body count is at zero. Sure seems like we're making a
difference to me.

As for the military body count; that's their job, which they volunteered
for. I would prefer the terrorists engage the 4th Infantry in Baghdad,
rather than jetliners and schoolbuses in New York or Atlanta.

Our plan is working well.


Nearly 1000 US service men have been killed. That's 40% of the number who
perished on 911.

About 20,000 nationals of Afghanistan and Iraq who were non combatants
have
also been killed.

911 was a tragedy but the real tragedy is that the US has not learned a
single lesson from it.

The lesson we learned is that we can't sit back and wait for an attack here,
we need to use our military to engage those who want to hurt us before they
have a chance to even make their plans.

I hope that the next lesson will be learnt and
understood.


Is that a threat? Sure sounds like it to me. For your sake, I hope not
because I just reported you to the FBI. Good luck entering the country if
you should ever have to.

"Dave" wrote in message
...

Compare that with being despised by most of the world and the target of
terrorists (freedom fighters) and incapable of doing anything about it.


If most of the world chooses to despise the US because we choose to take
action against terrorism instead of being helpless victims to it then I am
quite content to be despised.



Has Afghanistan made any difference? No
Has Iraq made any difference? No


No difference? Well, I don't know what was down the path not taken, but
apparently you do. There have been no terrorist attacks on US soil since
9/11/01. Would that have been true had the US not chosen to take the
offensive against terrorism?



Just look at the US body count since 911.


Well, the body count on US soil since 9/11/01 is zero. Compare that to the
body count on 9/11/01.



About 20,000 nationals of Afghanistan and Iraq who were non combatants
have
also been killed.


What's your source for that figure?



911 was a tragedy but the real tragedy is that the US has not learned a
single lesson from it. I hope that the next lesson will be learnt and
understood.


What lesson should the US have learned?