OK, what the hell has happened to the Brits?

In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

Wdtabor wrote:

Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

You'd better check those statistics again. Robbery and assault rates
have been about the same, and the rate of rape is about 1/3 that of the
US. There are variations by year, and whether you use police statistics
or victim surveys.

There are enough statistics on the subject on this site to choke a
horse:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/htm...6/contents.htm

More significantly, the US murder rate is about 8 times that of England.

It therefore doesn't appear that having guns has been a significant
factor in the occurrence of rape, assault, or robbery. By your
argument, since the US has one of the highest per capita gun ownership
rates in the world, there should be a huge difference, with the
advantage to the US, which there isn't. In fact, the stats show that the
rates of some serious crimes are far higher in the US than in England.

The statistics don't prove the need for gun ownership to deter personal
crimes such as robbery or rape, but show there isn't much effect either
way.

However, since the murder rate is 6 times as high in the US, and the
chance of being murdered with a gun is ten times as high, it sure looks
like the statistics suggest exactly the opposite of what you are trying
to say about the benefit of guns.

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:
You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.

Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Really? I didn't know that. I can believe that burglaries and
stealing car stereos are more prevalent - it's much softer and
easier for unarmed criminals over here to do that than hold up
petrol stations/shops which seems to be more prevalent over
there.

Assault and rape, well, I don't know about those. Have to look
them up.

First google search came up with this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/810522.stm

Apparently, rape is 3 times higher in the US than the UK.
Murder is 5.7 times higher. Shootings (no surprise) are 60
times higher. 68% of murders in the US are shootings, 7%
in England and Wales. The report agrees that burglary,
assault and car crime is higher in the UK.

Maybe with the assault figues it's a case of more pub/
neighbour/whatever brawls get away with being assaults
whereas in the US they end up as murder rather than
assault statistics! :-) (I'm semi-joking here, please don't take
offence!)

Burglaries often (mostly?) happen when there's no one
home. Arming people wouldn't change anything. And just
because people don't have guns in their homes, it doesn't
mean they don't have big D-cell torches, hockey sticks, etc,
with which to defend themselves and their property. It's
catching the b*gg*rs at it that's the problem.

I caught someone breaking into my car once. Didn't need
any weapons, I just held him by his outstretched arm until
the police arrived.

Oh, and someone said New York was the worst place in
the US...I think it's long ceased to be that. I believe that title
now goes to Washington DC. According to the web page,
the murder rate in NY is 8.6 per 100,000, whereas in
Washington DC it's 49.15 per 100,000. England and Wales
as a whole is 1.4, London is 2.9. US average is 6.3.

During my (on average) once a year (for 1 or 2 weeks) visits
to Winter Haven in Florida, a pretty smallish town, I've
arrived a day after a policeman was shot dead on one
occasion, and on another, turned up at the Winn Dixie just as
the police were laying out the tape after a drive-by shooting.
Other friends of mine were inside the shop! But no one locks
their cars when they go shopping.

Paul

Maybe with the assault figues it's a case of more pub/
neighbour/whatever brawls get away with being assaults
whereas in the US they end up as murder rather than
assault statistics! :-) (I'm semi-joking here, please don't take
offence!)

Actually, you are really more or less right about this. The total amount of
violence in western nations is more or less the same no matter where you go.
But in the US, a gun is much more likely to be involved in a violent crime,
and gun injuries are simply more deadly. So while the combined rate of
murder and aggravated assault (i.e., grevious bodily harm in the UK) are
about the same in our two nations, the ratio between these two rates is very
unequal. More assaults result in death here in the US than is the case in
the UK.

Oh, and someone said New York was the worst place in
the US...I think it's long ceased to be that. I believe that title
now goes to Washington DC. According to the web page,
the murder rate in NY is 8.6 per 100,000, whereas in
Washington DC it's 49.15 per 100,000.

Every year, it's like a race between DC, New Orleans, and Detroit to see who
can come out on top.

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

yes but we don't get guys shooting four people, kidnapping three girls and
be being sought by a jackass of a sheriff like the one in Georgia County.
Whose retard son is he and which retards voted him into office?

I'd be interested to know where those statistics come from (and please don't
quote the NRA as a credible source).

Shawn

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
I'd be interested to know where those statistics come from (and please
don't
quote the NRA as a credible source).


But HCI, CDC, CNN, ABC, CBS, etc., are a credible sources?

In case you haven't noticed, the NRA studies usually refer to GOVERNMENT
sources. That means they're not too friendly to their to begin with....

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
I'd be interested to know where those statistics come from (and please
don't
quote the NRA as a credible source).


I can guarantee that there have been several INDEPENDANT studies all
reaching that conclusion inclduding several that are normally quite HOSTILE
to the NRA (ABC News for one...).

So...when he proves his point will you change your mind, or your diaper?

I'll bet you evade it, spin it, or ignore it.

Shawn

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

This is quoted from a Home Office Report (Like Justice Dept)

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether
fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat. Two thirds of these
offences (6950), involved the firearm being used as a 'threat', but in
around 17% (1750) the firearm was fired at a person and an injury resulted.
Three quarters of these cases the injury was slight, but in one quarter it
was more serious, including 80 incidents where the injury proved fatal (down
from 95 recorded in 2001-2). Nearly two thirds of firearms offences occurred
in just three metropolitan forces, The Metropolitan Police, Greater
Manchester Police and West Midlands Police.

In most parts of England and Wales the incidence of firearm offences is very
low, and the chances of becoming a victim of a shooting are very low. The
risk of a fatal shooting in England and Wales is still one of the lowest in
the world.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/pdf/1sectionone.pdf

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

This is quoted from a Home Office Report (Like Justice Dept)

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether
fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat. Two thirds of these
offences (6950), involved the firearm being used as a 'threat', but in
around 17% (1750) the firearm was fired at a person and an injury
resulted.
Three quarters of these cases the injury was slight, but in one quarter it
was more serious, including 80 incidents where the injury proved fatal
(down
from 95 recorded in 2001-2). Nearly two thirds of firearms offences
occurred
in just three metropolitan forces, The Metropolitan Police, Greater
Manchester Police and West Midlands Police.

In most parts of England and Wales the incidence of firearm offences is
very
low, and the chances of becoming a victim of a shooting are very low. The
risk of a fatal shooting in England and Wales is still one of the lowest
in
the world.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/pdf/1sectionone.pdf

Murder Victims USA






by Weapon, 1998-2002





Weapons
1998
1999
2000
20011
2002















Total
14,209
13,011
13,230
14,061
14,054

Total firearms:
9,220
8,480
8,661
8,890
9,369

Handguns
7,405
6,658
6,778
6,931
7,176

Rifles
546
400
411
386
480

Shotguns
626
531
485
511
476

Other guns
16
92
53
59
74

Firearms, type not stated
627
799
934
1,003
1,163

Knives or cutting






instruments
1,890
1,712
1,782
1,831
1,767

Blunt objects (clubs,






hammers, etc.)
750
756
617
680
666

Personal weapons (hands,






fists, feet, etc.)2
959
885
927
961
933

Poison
6
11
8
12
23

Explosives
10
0
9
4
11

Fire
132
133
134
109
104

Narcotics
33
26
20
37
48

Drowning
28
28
15
23
18

Strangulation
213
190
166
153
143

Asphyxiation
99
106
92
116
103

Other weapons or






weapons not stated
869
684
799
1,245
869