OK, what the hell has happened to the Brits?

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
...
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Dylan Smith" wrote

There are dozens of ways. It's sort of like solving an equation

The bottom line is, no terrorist will ever again take over a passenger
flight. The crowd will overcome them, or crash the plane, well short of
its
objective.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/1936942.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2035546.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2228720.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/2330021.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/2374061.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/2486935.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2502033.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2520069.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2676081.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2738993.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2897727.stm

Some hijackers taken by crew, some by air marshals, some
were landed safely under orders of the hijackers. Not sure
about any hijackers taken by passengers, I think I saw that
it happened in one of them.

If they were American planes then it is more likely that SLF would get
involved

besides which none of these hijackings were Al Quaida




All since 11/9/2001. So you can't say the crowd would
overcome them all the time and none would be successful.
You also can't say no one would try to hijack a plane in
the old sense any more.

Another take on sky marshals:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2144133.stm

Paul

If they were American planes then it is more likely that SLF would get
involved

What the devil is SLF?

Maybe with the assault figues it's a case of more pub/
neighbour/whatever brawls get away with being assaults
whereas in the US they end up as murder rather than
assault statistics! :-) (I'm semi-joking here, please don't take
offence!)

Actually, you are really more or less right about this. The total amount of
violence in western nations is more or less the same no matter where you go.
But in the US, a gun is much more likely to be involved in a violent crime,
and gun injuries are simply more deadly. So while the combined rate of
murder and aggravated assault (i.e., grevious bodily harm in the UK) are
about the same in our two nations, the ratio between these two rates is very
unequal. More assaults result in death here in the US than is the case in
the UK.

Oh, and someone said New York was the worst place in
the US...I think it's long ceased to be that. I believe that title
now goes to Washington DC. According to the web page,
the murder rate in NY is 8.6 per 100,000, whereas in
Washington DC it's 49.15 per 100,000.

Every year, it's like a race between DC, New Orleans, and Detroit to see who
can come out on top.

We had a Northwest flight make an emergency landing here Tuesday because
someone tried to forcefully enter the cockpit. Turned out it was a
drunk woman who wanted to complain to the captain about being denied
more booze. She will remain in Billings recuperating for a lengthy
period of time after nearly being torn limb from limb. We were told by
the local cops that the FA's had to protect her from the passengers.



Jack Davis wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 18:49:52 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:


A brute-force way of doing it would be to have two terrorist cells on
board. The first one begins the hijack. The sky marshall takes charge
and does his job *instantly identifying himself and where he keeps his
gun* to the second cell. The second cell then swing into action some
time later, first seizing control of the sky marshal and his weapon, and
then continuing with their plan. And now they are armed with a gun.


The good news is, the folks in charge of the US FAMs are way ahead of
you and I. This contingency has already been planned and trained,
along with a few hundred other scenarios we can't even imagine.

-J

Jack Davis
B-737


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Paul Sengupta wrote:

Just playing Devil's wotsit here, "the penalty for guessing wrong is death".
Right. So. They grab someone randomly. The air marshal draws his gun
for issuing said penalty. He's identified. The other 3 terrorists then get
the gun off the air marshal.

And while they're trying to do that, the second air marshall shoots all three of
them.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

I'd be interested to know where those statistics come from (and please don't
quote the NRA as a credible source).

Shawn

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in message
link.net...
If they were American planes then it is more likely that SLF would get
involved

What the devil is SLF?

Passengers aka Self Loading Freight

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

This is quoted from a Home Office Report (Like Justice Dept)

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether
fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat. Two thirds of these
offences (6950), involved the firearm being used as a 'threat', but in
around 17% (1750) the firearm was fired at a person and an injury resulted.
Three quarters of these cases the injury was slight, but in one quarter it
was more serious, including 80 incidents where the injury proved fatal (down
from 95 recorded in 2001-2). Nearly two thirds of firearms offences occurred
in just three metropolitan forces, The Metropolitan Police, Greater
Manchester Police and West Midlands Police.

In most parts of England and Wales the incidence of firearm offences is very
low, and the chances of becoming a victim of a shooting are very low. The
risk of a fatal shooting in England and Wales is still one of the lowest in
the world.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/pdf/1sectionone.pdf

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

This is quoted from a Home Office Report (Like Justice Dept)

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether
fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat. Two thirds of these
offences (6950), involved the firearm being used as a 'threat', but in
around 17% (1750) the firearm was fired at a person and an injury
resulted.
Three quarters of these cases the injury was slight, but in one quarter it
was more serious, including 80 incidents where the injury proved fatal
(down
from 95 recorded in 2001-2). Nearly two thirds of firearms offences
occurred
in just three metropolitan forces, The Metropolitan Police, Greater
Manchester Police and West Midlands Police.

In most parts of England and Wales the incidence of firearm offences is
very
low, and the chances of becoming a victim of a shooting are very low. The
risk of a fatal shooting in England and Wales is still one of the lowest
in
the world.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/pdf/1sectionone.pdf

Murder Victims USA






by Weapon, 1998-2002





Weapons
1998
1999
2000
20011
2002















Total
14,209
13,011
13,230
14,061
14,054

Total firearms:
9,220
8,480
8,661
8,890
9,369

Handguns
7,405
6,658
6,778
6,931
7,176

Rifles
546
400
411
386
480

Shotguns
626
531
485
511
476

Other guns
16
92
53
59
74

Firearms, type not stated
627
799
934
1,003
1,163

Knives or cutting






instruments
1,890
1,712
1,782
1,831
1,767

Blunt objects (clubs,






hammers, etc.)
750
756
617
680
666

Personal weapons (hands,






fists, feet, etc.)2
959
885
927
961
933

Poison
6
11
8
12
23

Explosives
10
0
9
4
11

Fire
132
133
134
109
104

Narcotics
33
26
20
37
48

Drowning
28
28
15
23
18

Strangulation
213
190
166
153
143

Asphyxiation
99
106
92
116
103

Other weapons or






weapons not stated
869
684
799
1,245
869

Dave, you forgot to mention Automobiles.. USA = 110 deaths per day, times
365 days a year, times however many years you want to compare...
You are orders of magnitude more likely to die just crossing the street for
a newspaper at noon than you are to get shot walking through the worst part
of town at 3AM...
denny