Madness

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
in article , Jeb at
wrote on 1/10/04 10:35 AM:


So alarmed was the Staples clerk at the prospect of the ten year old
learning to fly, that he informed the police, the Greenfield Recorder
reports.

Well, I think it's a safe bet that I'd be picketing that store about 5
minutes after the cops visited. And if I thought I could get away with it,
I'd beat the **** out of that snoopy clerk. I hate people like that.


As a former cop- and admittedly proud American, I'd like to put this into a
slightly different perspective.

Obviously this Staples incident is distressing IF it really happened-- I
haven't found the supporting docs yet. Assuming the story has veracity,
then what the Hell is wrong with the cops!? It understandable that the
store management and the clerk who likely have little or no training in
security, could consider such an innocuous request as some kind of security
threat. But I ask again. WHAT ABOUT THE COPS!!?

Surely this "security violation" had to go through some sort of chain of
command at the police department before an individual officer was sent to
these folks home. What was THEIR thought process, if any? I find far more
fault with the police in this matter than the Staples store. (Remember
please- NOT a cop hater speaking here.)

Additionally, going to the store to picket or "... beat the **** out of that
snoopy clerk" seems like a ridiculous response. Possibly, a letter of
concern to Staples corporate office, and maybe a similar letter to the
editor of the local newspaper might be more effective. If we are to protect
GA (and all of our other liberties), we must be vigilant but reasonable in
our responses to these incursions away from sanity. Otherwise, we'll never
be able to get enough mainstream support to realize the balance we need
between security and freedom.

Unbridled passion, while useful in certain circumstances g often adds more
heat than light.

I feel better. How about you?

VideoGuy

"Video Guy" gkasten at brick dot net wrote in message
...
If we are to protect
GA (and all of our other liberties), we must be vigilant but reasonable in
our responses to these incursions away from sanity. Otherwise, we'll
never
be able to get enough mainstream support to realize the balance we need
between security and freedom.

OOPS!

That should be "EXcursions away from sanity". Sometimes my brain thinks one
thing, but my fingers type another.

VideoGuy

"Video Guy" gkasten at brick dot net wrote in message
...
|
| As a former cop- and admittedly proud American, I'd like to put this into
a
| slightly different perspective.
|
| Obviously this Staples incident is distressing IF it really happened-- I
| haven't found the supporting docs yet.

http://www.recorder.com/Headlines/tuesday_basic.htm

At least the "Greenfield Recorder" really did print a story like that. The
story by Andrew Orlowski in Las Vegas left out some things and
sensationalized it a bit, but the general facts appear to be the same. The
story was also picked up by "The Register" and several other papers around
the country. Orlowski's version appears to be the version that is most
widely reproduced.

"Video Guy" gkasten at brick dot net wrote in message ...

Obviously this Staples incident is distressing IF it really happened-- I
haven't found the supporting docs yet. Assuming the story has veracity,
then what the Hell is wrong with the cops!? It understandable that the
store management and the clerk who likely have little or no training in
security, could consider such an innocuous request as some kind of security
threat. But I ask again. WHAT ABOUT THE COPS!!?

Surely this "security violation" had to go through some sort of chain of
command at the police department before an individual officer was sent to
these folks home. What was THEIR thought process, if any? I find far more
fault with the police in this matter than the Staples store. (Remember
please- NOT a cop hater speaking here.)

Unfortunately, I think that you'll find that the cops these days are
caught up in a "cover your ass" mentality when it comes to terrorist
related calls. You can bet that even the most ridiculous calls will
be investigated. Some of my cop acquaintences could tell you some
pretty silly tales about what they have to investigate these days.

For example, if my neighbor is building a homebuilt in his garage, I
can have the cops there within a few hours to check him out. Sadly,
this is not the America of a few years ago. We are a jittery,
frightened society now, and the terrorists are sitting in their caves
laughing their asses off.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

John Galban wrote:

Unfortunately, I think that you'll find that the cops these days are
caught up in a "cover your ass" mentality when it comes to terrorist
related calls.

Yeah, but the ones in my neighborhood walk up to the front door, ring the bell,
explain the situation (usually apologetically), and ask for information.

You know, like people are supposed to behave?

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

"John Galban" wrote in message
om...
"Video Guy" gkasten at brick dot net wrote in message
...
.. We are a jittery,
frightened society now, and the terrorists are sitting in their caves
laughing their asses off.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

John,

I will retain the optimism that as a country, we will be able to overcome
this unfortunate global loss of common sense and return to a more realistic
understanding about what are the actual possiblities of any ONE of us being
involved in a terrorist attack. This is not to say we shouldn't be
vigilant, but we need to be at least as reasonable as we are vigilant.

You are probably correct in you assessment of the terrorists glee. Just
wish we knew WHICH cave that was!

VideoGuy

"John Galban" wrote in message
om...

For example, if my neighbor is building a homebuilt in his garage, I
can have the cops there within a few hours to check him out. Sadly,
this is not the America of a few years ago. We are a jittery,
frightened society now, and the terrorists are sitting in their caves
laughing their asses off.


As horrific as 9/11 was (and I was there), it was not militarily
significant. Except to the terrorist organizations who felt, and will be
feeling, the brunt of a very powerful military. Some sanity has to return
to government and how they respond to threats. In short, we need strong
leadership, and by that I don't mean some administration deciding to invade
this or that country.

in article , Video Guy at gkasten at brick
dot net wrote on 1/12/04 11:51 AM:


"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
in article , Jeb at
wrote on 1/10/04 10:35 AM:


So alarmed was the Staples clerk at the prospect of the ten year old
learning to fly, that he informed the police, the Greenfield Recorder
reports.

Well, I think it's a safe bet that I'd be picketing that store about 5
minutes after the cops visited. And if I thought I could get away with it,
I'd beat the **** out of that snoopy clerk. I hate people like that.


As a former cop- and admittedly proud American, I'd like to put this into a
slightly different perspective.

Obviously this Staples incident is distressing IF it really happened-- I
haven't found the supporting docs yet. Assuming the story has veracity,
then what the Hell is wrong with the cops!? It understandable that the
store management and the clerk who likely have little or no training in
security, could consider such an innocuous request as some kind of security
threat. But I ask again. WHAT ABOUT THE COPS!!?

Surely this "security violation" had to go through some sort of chain of
command at the police department before an individual officer was sent to
these folks home. What was THEIR thought process, if any? I find far more
fault with the police in this matter than the Staples store. (Remember
please- NOT a cop hater speaking here.)

These are good points. Since when do the cops respond to every two-bit
complaint they get? Just listening to my scanner I know that they don't have
the resources for that.

Additionally, going to the store to picket or "... beat the **** out of that
snoopy clerk" seems like a ridiculous response.

Okay, my reaction was more emotional than rational, I'll admit. Still, the
whole notion of snooping and spying by Americans on other Americans
distresses me. Particularly since we've been through it before.

Possibly, a letter of
concern to Staples corporate office, and maybe a similar letter to the
editor of the local newspaper might be more effective. If we are to protect
GA (and all of our other liberties), we must be vigilant but reasonable in
our responses to these incursions away from sanity. Otherwise, we'll never
be able to get enough mainstream support to realize the balance we need
between security and freedom.

Unbridled passion, while useful in certain circumstances g often adds more
heat than light.

I feel better. How about you?

VideoGuy

Well, sure. On the other hand, if that incident had happened to ME, and I
didn't have you around to cool me off, I'd have gone to that store and
beaten the **** out of that clerk.

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
in article , Video Guy at gkasten at
brick
dot net wrote on 1/12/04 11:51 AM:
[snip]

Okay, my reaction was more emotional than rational, I'll admit. Still, the
whole notion of snooping and spying by Americans on other Americans
distresses me. Particularly since we've been through it before.

You are not alone here. We are still in the "hysteria phase" of learning to
cope with 9/11. Nearly everyone reacts emotionally to some part of the
attacks and the aftermath. It's still confusing to a lot of us who don't
understand the reasons why these things happened. I put those who are
charged with preventing another incident in this category too. We're ALL
confused. The ONLY thing we as Americans can do is understand that WE are
not the enemy, and we must not let ourselves BECOME the enemy. So with that
I'm in complete agreement with you about being distressed by the snooping.

Possibly, a letter of
concern to Staples corporate office, and maybe a similar letter to the
editor of the local newspaper might be more effective. If we are to
protect
GA (and all of our other liberties), we must be vigilant but reasonable
in
our responses to these incursions away from sanity. Otherwise, we'll
never
be able to get enough mainstream support to realize the balance we need
between security and freedom.


Well, sure. On the other hand, if that incident had happened to ME, and I
didn't have you around to cool me off, I'd have gone to that store and
beaten the **** out of that clerk.

Are you sure that the clerk is the "bad guy" in any of this? Admittedly, he
instigated the situation, But it traveled through a group of people, who
ALL should have exercised much better judgment. Seems like they ALL failed.
Probably the clerk and the cop who was ultimately the one sent to the house
are the two least culpable.

Of course, that's just the way I see it. YMMV

VideoGuy

in article , Video Guy at gkasten at brick
dot net wrote on 1/12/04 8:28 PM:

Are you sure that the clerk is the "bad guy" in any of this? Admittedly, he
instigated the situation, But it traveled through a group of people, who
ALL should have exercised much better judgment. Seems like they ALL failed.
Probably the clerk and the cop who was ultimately the one sent to the house
are the two least culpable.

Of course, that's just the way I see it. YMMV

VideoGuy

I don't disagree with you, Video Guy, but I guess I just expect more of
people, even a young (not sure how old he/she was) store clerk. I guess when
you get right down to it, we're all covering our asses. That's one of the
things I hate about the current climate in this country. When everything
starts boiling down to "CYA", nobody wins.