Question: "Overhead Entry to Downwind?"

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

You are allowed to enter the traffic pattern any way you like.


Well, not just any way, there is a restriction on the direction of turns.

Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is paraphrased
from memory). In fact, if one were to only make left turns in the traffic
pattern, an overhead approach would be one of the ONLY ways to enter the
pattern. Of course, one very few people are looking for. :-)

--
Mike

Mike O'Malley wrote:


Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is paraphrased
from memory). In fact, if one were to only make left turns in the traffic
pattern, an overhead approach would be one of the ONLY ways to enter the
pattern. Of course, one very few people are looking for. :-)



Am I misreading something, or do the Canadians frown on the "45 to
downwind" approach at uncontrolled airports, (unless traffic advisory is
available)???

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/an...new197.htm#MF2

quote:
Basically, when airport and traffic advisory information is not
available, regardless of whether MF procedures are in effect or not,
aircraft should not join 45% to the downwind leg, straight-in to the
base or final leg of the circuit. The correct entry procedure to be
used, therefore, depends on whether airport and traffic advisory is
available or not."

Mike O'Malley wrote:

Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is paraphrased
from memory).

The 45 entry to downwind is not "in the pattern". It is the entry to the pattern
and does nopt have to be a left turn.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...

The 45 entry to downwind is not "in the pattern". It is the entry to the
pattern
and does nopt have to be a left turn.


The regulation does not require turns "in the pattern" to be to the left, it
requires the pilot of an airplane approaching to land at an airport without
an operating control tower to make all turns to the left. The 45 degree
entry to downwind violates the regulation.

The 45 degree
entry to downwind violates the regulation.

Shall we arrest the FAA, then?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Shall we arrest the FAA, then?


From a pilot's viewpoint, I do not see a downside to that.

"Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

The regulation does not require turns "in the pattern" to be to the left, it
requires the pilot of an airplane approaching to land at an airport without
an operating control tower to make all turns to the left. The 45 degree
entry to downwind violates the regulation.

While I'm inclined to agree with you that you have the
better interpretation of that regulation, it's also clear
that the FAA recommends a procedure that on its face seems
to be illegal. If the FAA's recommendation is legal, then
the logical reason must be that making the 45 right turn
entry to the pattern occurs before the pilot is "approaching
to land." It seems odd, given that the 45 entry is part of
the defined pattern for the approach to landing, but I've
seen the language in other FAR's strained farther than that.
Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
___
Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

I read an NTSB decision that violated a 135 operator for turning a 5
mile final from a right base. If that is considered "approaching to
land", then surely the 45 entry must be also.


On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:45:34 -0500, Todd Pattist
wrote:

"Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

The regulation does not require turns "in the pattern" to be to the left, it
requires the pilot of an airplane approaching to land at an airport without
an operating control tower to make all turns to the left. The 45 degree
entry to downwind violates the regulation.

While I'm inclined to agree with you that you have the
better interpretation of that regulation, it's also clear
that the FAA recommends a procedure that on its face seems
to be illegal. If the FAA's recommendation is legal, then
the logical reason must be that making the 45 right turn
entry to the pattern occurs before the pilot is "approaching
to land." It seems odd, given that the 45 entry is part of
the defined pattern for the approach to landing, but I've
seen the language in other FAR's strained farther than that.
Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
___
Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

Bill Zaleski wrote:

I read an NTSB decision that violated a 135 operator for turning a 5
mile final from a right base. If that is considered "approaching to
land", then surely the 45 entry must be also.

I read it too. It was his base to final turn. We're
talking about a 45 entry turn that is 2 turns before the
base to final turn. You tell me - is distance or number of
turns more important? How about time? There must be some
transition between "not yet approaching to land" and
"approaching to land," but I don't think we can say that
it's always illegal to make right hand turns within 5 miles
of the airport you want to land at.
Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
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Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

"Todd Pattist" wrote in message
...

I read it too. It was his base to final turn. We're
talking about a 45 entry turn that is 2 turns before the
base to final turn. You tell me - is distance or number of
turns more important? How about time? There must be some
transition between "not yet approaching to land" and
"approaching to land," but I don't think we can say that
it's always illegal to make right hand turns within 5 miles
of the airport you want to land at.


The regulation says when approaching to land at an airport without an
operating control tower each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of
that airplane to the left. Logically, any turn made for the purpose of
aligning the airplane with the landing runway is such a turn and must be
made to the left. That would include all turns in the pattern and the
pattern entry.