Tight patterns?

His not being where you expect him to be... has nothing to do with your
(and his) mutual obligation to see and avoid each other. There is no
requirement to even USE a pattern. You cant depend on other traffic
having a radio at the uncontrolled fields I use.

Dave

Wdtabor wrote:
In article ,
(Bob Martin) writes:


IMHO, there's no reason to go flying a jet/heavy twin pattern in a
Cessna. I've always tried to fly mine 4 white on the PAPI, with
basically a continuous turn from downwind to final (leveling out for a
second just to check traffic).



Like everything else, this can be taken to dangerous extremes in either
direction.

Too wide a pattern wastes time and puts you out of gliding range from the
runway.

But the only close call I ever had to a collision was the result of a guy in a
NORDO Husky flying too tight, and especially, TOO LOW, a pattern.

At CPK, pattern altitude is 1000 msl. I was practicing crosswind landings in a
Katana ( really like those little airplanes) and staying close in at pattern
altitude. The Husky took off after me and I saw him lifting off about midfield
as I turned from crosswind to downwind, but then lost track of him. On final, I
still couldn't see him and hadn't heard him either, so I got nervous. So I
added power and did some S-turns to move my wing around an look down, and sure
enough, there he was, a hundred feet or so below and slightly ahead of me. I
went around and later had a talk with him at the fuel pumps.

I don't think he ever got to 800 feet, and probably turned crosswing before he
was even to the end of the runway, and flew such a tight pattern that he
overtook and passed me. Add a low wing over a high wing, a NORDO aircraft
flying a non-standard pattern, and you've got a midair waiting to happen.

The point being that we fly a standard pattern for a reason, and that is so
other pilots can anticipate where we're going to be and know where to look to
see and avoid and so that the timing works out right. It would make some sense
for the slower Husky to fly a tighter pattern than a Cessna, and a Bonanza a
wider one, just to accomadate the speed differences in maintaining separation,
but not reaching pattern altitude is asking for disaster.

And, of course, if you're NORDO, it is even more important to fly in a
predictable manner.

Don

In article et, Dave S
writes:


His not being where you expect him to be... has nothing to do with your
(and his) mutual obligation to see and avoid each other. There is no
requirement to even USE a pattern. You cant depend on other traffic
having a radio at the uncontrolled fields I use.


However is inside pattern and failure to reach the published pattern altitude
created a positioning that made it impossible for either of us to see or avoid
the other.

Had I not been nervous about NOT being able to see him and not knowing, since
he was NORDO, if he had remained in the pattern or flown straight out, he would
have had landing gear poking down through his wings in just a few more seconds.

It may be true that folks aren't required to fly a standard pattern, at the
published altitude, but I am saying it is good practice to do so, and
unnecssarily risky to not.

And that flying predictably when NORDO is even more important.

Not law, just good sense.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG